mission4: intrepid

U

Unregistered

Guest
hiho,
i really like unknown enemy. but i hate mission four where you have to fly to the intrepid ...
it's no problem to defend all these freighter and beaufort-station. the second time i defended beaufort i got refueled and then i have to move on to the dauntless and there i have to prevent it from beeing destroyed. but i im not able to protect the dauntless. :(
i played several time and everytime the dauntless is killed in just a half minute.
i treid everything. first i try to engage the mantas that attacks the dauntless. but after killing 1 or two of them my carrier is lost.

i really dont know how to defend my lovely bengal-carrier... :(
anyone there who can give me tips???
 

Iceblade

Admiral
I rarely have a problem with defending the Dauntless...I suppose when you get to that part you should try going to an easier difficulty. Do you still have your wingmen?
 

cff

Kilk'dymga'qith laq Ik'vikvi
Either the Dauntless is already heavily damaged earlier or it really shouldn't be that big of a problem. If nothing else helps and you have some wingmen and/or turrets on the Dauntless remaining you can also fall back to cheap tactics. That is fly point defense over either the bridge or the engines and shoot down torpedos until all are spent and wait for your mates/turrets to clear most of the mess.
 

Quarto

Unknown Enemy
Yep, most likely the Dauntless is already damaged. You do need to remember, any damage taken by the Dauntless in the previous mission will be carried over into this one.
 

Iceblade

Admiral
Damaged? I never had a problem of the Dauntless getting damaged until the scramble missions. What path are you on? with or without the Fralthi on your side
 
U

Unregistered

Guest
thx for the answers. i never managed to find the fralthi. so i suppose the dauntless got damaged in the mission where the fralthi attacked togehther with the ralari.
didnt know that the damage is carried over...
normally i have one wingman left but i think i fail due to the prvious damages.
so i try to succesfully finsih the mission where i have to find the fralthi.
any hints for that mission? do i have to afterburn at the fralthi-navpoint instead of fighting first the kilrathis there ???

thx a lot!
 

Iceblade

Admiral
Use subtitles, sometimes phrases get muddled in the spirit of combat. For that mission when the Dauntless says "forget" those kilrathi I thought I heard "get" those kilrathi. Somehow I didn't hear the "for."
 
U

Unregistered

Guest
yeah, i finally found the fralthi and afterwards i managed to defend beaufort and the dauntless from the nephilim invaders. easy job :D

but the mission where i have to fly the gratha was pretty hard. i hate those grathas. it's slow and the weapons are also not the best... i barely managed to hit all these salthis. man, i wished i had a hornet! ;)


thx for your help!
now i have to fight these insects. xD
 

MjavTheGray

Spaceman
Damage is accumulated?...
Well, that IS something we did miss in WC1/2/3/4. Didn't we? :)

Ah, I wish I could fly that good to protect Beaufort and Dauntless without the kitties and their help...
It'd be very interesting to fly torpedo missions with Scimitars instead of Grathas, but it looks like I have no chance for it...
 

Quarto

Unknown Enemy
Well, you can lose the Fralthi later on - even during the Intrepid mission, if you like. But you won't get to fly torpedo missions with Scimitars instead of Gratha - Scimitars don't carry torpedoes at all.
 

MjavTheGray

Spaceman
Those with Viper cannons - they do not carry.
What about the older model with mass drivers?
It is said in the in-game info center to carry torpedoes. Was that for nothing?
The games doesn't let us fly those older Scims?
 

Quarto

Unknown Enemy
Hmm, I actually don't remember. It was all a long time ago. Come to think of it, there might have been a torp-carrying variant in there, for the last mission of the game. If it was, though, it probably only carried one torpedo, and was regarded by the characters as a last-resort kind of thing. That said, though, I actually made a point of having some stuff in the fiction that was there for no reason at all except to mislead people. For example, we mention the Jrathek as a possible enemy ship in one of the pieces.

(as an aside, the Viper Cannon is quite possibly my absolute greatest regret for UE... there's all sorts of other things I'm not entirely happy with, but putting in a capship-killing gun just because we could has got to be the worst thing we could have done. Particularly since, after putting it in, we actually ended up making enemy capships invulnerable in every Scim mission where we didn't want the player to kill them. And let's not even mention the ridiculousness of the Border Worlds having a gun even better than the Dust Cannon from Secret Ops...)
 

Pedro

Admiral
Well UE was a testament to what happens when a bunch of people come together into uncharted territory and spitball possibilities without proper quality control... oh wait, that would have been my job, d'oh! :)
I'd love to come back to UE some day, but not to correct mistakes, rather to start a new, I really enjoyed working in a close group of people, many of whom I came to call friends, having some say over all elements. But... I really don't like any of the engine options enough.
 

MjavTheGray

Spaceman
It makes me somewhat unhappy to hear that creator of UE do not love it.
Speaking the truth, it's the most Wing-commander'ish game I've had played.

I'm truly sorry to say so, but Standoff is not loved in our town at all.
I know you guys wanted to repeat the WC2, but... looks like Prophecy engine just can't do it.
The projectiles are too slow, the cannons are inaccurate and the armor is like a toilet paper.

So, returning to UE... Missions there ARE damn difficult, but they are wing commander'ish diffucult. And Standoff... Nope. Sorry. Paper craft with slow-recharge slow-projectile cannons? Not a WC for us here. Again, sorry, guys. Sorry for this words. You have done a titanic work nobody else would do, I I have no right to say badly of Standoff...

But thank you, thank you and thank you for UE.
It's SO MUCH PLEASURE.
Really...
 

Quarto

Unknown Enemy
Well, it certainly wouldn't be a fun community if everybody liked the exact same stuff for the exact same reasons :). That said, I do think your criticism of Standoff is a bit unfair - as far as I can remember WC2, we got it pretty straight on. The projectiles really were that slow, and the armour really was that weak - I remember spending a lot of time flying around with no armour, particularly in the Sabre (never mind the Epee - there, you always had full armour, because if you didn't, it meant you were dead). Still, I haven't played WC2 in a long time... so, one thing's for sure - one of the two of us (or both :p) doesn't remember what WC2 was like :D.
 

MjavTheGray

Spaceman
Well, I do admit - it's years since I played WC2 last time. I just alway forget to fix my joystick,
and without it WC2 of the WCKSaga can't be played normally, unlike WC1 & 3.

And ... as for cannons. Those 'viper' ones. Well, they maybe ARE better then confed's Dust cannons... (You see, I just can't stop defend my beloved Scims and not less admired UE :-D )
But BW did have leech cannons, stormfire cannons, which confed never thought of.
They concentrated on flash-packs instead ;)

So it doesn't look so strange to me that BW techs could invent a shield-penetrate cannon.
Why wouldn't they?
 

Quarto

Unknown Enemy
So it doesn't look so strange to me that BW techs could invent a shield-penetrate cannon.
Why wouldn't they?
It's not really a case of "why couldn't they". I mean, I really don't think they could, but that's besides the point :p. The thing is, we can accept such things in official WC games... but when fans do it themselves, it's kinda ugly and embarassing - you get the impression that they're doing it not because it's needed for a good game, but simply because they found an opportunity to create what they think would be the "perfect" fighter or whatever.

Back when we were making UE, I thought I managed to steer clear of that - after all, our Scimitars and Epees, however powerful, were still substantially weaker than most Confed fighters (the Avenger is a different story - I think I'd choose it over the Devastator any day... which is why it only shows up in the sim). But the capship-killing gun definitely fits into that irrational "perfect" trend. When Origin made a capship-killing gun in WCP, they purposely gave it a very low speed and refire rate, so that even if you could kill another fighter with it, it was a challenge to do so. In other words, they gave their gun a disadvantage - we didn't. We just made the ideal gun, with a high refire, a high bullet speed, and a high damage potential against both fighters and capships. The fact that we actually had to make enemy capships invulnerable in some missions shows how little sense this made - we literally created a problem and then started mangling our missions in order to conceal the problem, rather than simply fix it.
 

PopsiclePete

Mission programmer
You know, I find it nice we made, although it was not intended, two games that complement each other and reaches different tastes.

Even if looking back now we're a bit ashamed of the fanboyism we put into Unknown Enemy's design, back then we did it with all our fan enthousiasm to include every "wouldn't it be cool if..." element we could stuff in. (IE, I personnaly pushed for, designed and coded the K'ha'haf "flying rock" mission... really fun, but stupidly unexplanable in the WC universe :p) This obviously can be felt by the fans, who seem as excited to play it as we were making it. Unknown Enemy is flawed, but in an inspiring way:D

Standoff was designed in a more thoughfull maner, to be not only faithfull to the WC universe (and WC2's feel) but also to avoid the design traps we fell in while working on UE.

Personally I love both UE and Standoff very, very much, and I find merit in both games... but we have to admit Standoff is better designed, and still love UE for what it is.
 
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