Militia Paradigms?
- Thread starter JKeefe
- Start date
For the sake of getting this in a different direction, I'd assume that militia is mostly something like the Mercenaries, but with a different structure, because hired by the local governments.
Still they would be at least equivalent or a tad bit better equipped than your common thug, because they are against smuggling.
However, there is one problem I have with the current remake. the space is too sparesly populated, you hardly see militia/transports or else in a system, exception: you have a mission at hand.
The problem is that usually there should be on 1 million people on a colony at least 1000 pilots serving one funtion or another. And it would give the universe a more living feeling if you'd see more transports/escorts and such occuring.
The problem is that right now the militia couldn't deal with a player unleashed mission. For example, the player exaggerates his own strength and takes a mission with 6-8 pirates or even kilrathi, then you can bet that he is either outmatched or your wingmen (if you can hire them) won't even be able to deal with a quarter of them.
Especially when they fly galaxies, the pirates or kilrathi have an easy bet against militia/hunters/merchants. There needs to be some servere balancing to get this right. Also, it is somehow bizarre to have five kilrathi and two pirates in New Constantinople (hint: this is the capital). It wasn't possible to deal with this in Privateer, because CPU time and memory were inexpensive those times. However, now, the Remake could deal with those limitations and it would also grant some user friendliness.
Still they would be at least equivalent or a tad bit better equipped than your common thug, because they are against smuggling.
However, there is one problem I have with the current remake. the space is too sparesly populated, you hardly see militia/transports or else in a system, exception: you have a mission at hand.
The problem is that usually there should be on 1 million people on a colony at least 1000 pilots serving one funtion or another. And it would give the universe a more living feeling if you'd see more transports/escorts and such occuring.
The problem is that right now the militia couldn't deal with a player unleashed mission. For example, the player exaggerates his own strength and takes a mission with 6-8 pirates or even kilrathi, then you can bet that he is either outmatched or your wingmen (if you can hire them) won't even be able to deal with a quarter of them.
Especially when they fly galaxies, the pirates or kilrathi have an easy bet against militia/hunters/merchants. There needs to be some servere balancing to get this right. Also, it is somehow bizarre to have five kilrathi and two pirates in New Constantinople (hint: this is the capital). It wasn't possible to deal with this in Privateer, because CPU time and memory were inexpensive those times. However, now, the Remake could deal with those limitations and it would also grant some user friendliness.
The Militia in Privateer I always saw as needing to be broken in to three groups.
1) the Confed Navy (using cap ships from WC II + WC III)
2) the ISS (using cap ships from WC that don't apperar in WC II or WC III)
3) local forces hired by the planets/bases to filling in the gaps
[This would be the same set up that the USA has today for costal defense/rescue/anti-smuggleing operations.
1) the USA NAVY
2) the USA Coast Guard
3) State and local police forces]
I would give the ISS old cap ships. In a war that lasts 50 years you will have cap ships that get too old for the front lines but not unusefull. You transfere them to a resvere force like the ISS whom are very nessary back up to the Naval forces at times.
1) the Confed Navy (using cap ships from WC II + WC III)
2) the ISS (using cap ships from WC that don't apperar in WC II or WC III)
3) local forces hired by the planets/bases to filling in the gaps
[This would be the same set up that the USA has today for costal defense/rescue/anti-smuggleing operations.
1) the USA NAVY
2) the USA Coast Guard
3) State and local police forces]
I would give the ISS old cap ships. In a war that lasts 50 years you will have cap ships that get too old for the front lines but not unusefull. You transfere them to a resvere force like the ISS whom are very nessary back up to the Naval forces at times.
My problem with all this fuss is as unlikely as it is that a militia has a capital ship, it is still more unlikely that space is sooo void (
).
I can fly through 3-4 systems and not ONE ship (except pirates and kilrathi) turn up and this is something I don't think is in the idea of a Confederation that has populated dozens of system.
I just met two paradigms in New Detroit (two!!), who didn't even launch space fighters to fight 6 dralthis. And guess, one jump to Perry and you will see the capital of Confed-military void of any ships, except Kilrathi... that's scary in a way..
).I can fly through 3-4 systems and not ONE ship (except pirates and kilrathi) turn up and this is something I don't think is in the idea of a Confederation that has populated dozens of system.
I just met two paradigms in New Detroit (two!!), who didn't even launch space fighters to fight 6 dralthis. And guess, one jump to Perry and you will see the capital of Confed-military void of any ships, except Kilrathi... that's scary in a way..
This debate seems to skip over one point. Neither Militia, HD, or ISS would have the latest and greatest military hardware. Given WCU I won't mind seeing the militia having some really old, obsolete cap ships but Paradigms do not fit that bill.
I can see an occasional use for a militia cap ship. It could stay on picket duty at jump points that strugglers frequent much better than a fighter. If a base was nearby you could just have constant patrols, but I would envision the militia sometime patroling into neighboring systems when disorder in those systems was a cause of local concern. Being on the frontier, I image frontier justice where jurisdiction doesn't really matter. Of course, seeing all those base missions to take out pirates/retroes in other systems, the militia may just be hiring privateers to take care of all such concerns.
I can see an occasional use for a militia cap ship. It could stay on picket duty at jump points that strugglers frequent much better than a fighter. If a base was nearby you could just have constant patrols, but I would envision the militia sometime patroling into neighboring systems when disorder in those systems was a cause of local concern. Being on the frontier, I image frontier justice where jurisdiction doesn't really matter. Of course, seeing all those base missions to take out pirates/retroes in other systems, the militia may just be hiring privateers to take care of all such concerns.
spiritplumber
Spaceman
VS indeed does not like factions who can own systems to not have capships. I came up with a paradigm-style corvette to give the Militia this far (Confeds occasionally have it as well in a shinier livery), but that's obviously temporary.
spiritplumber
Spaceman
I'm doing subfactions in WCU... best thing I can tell you ATM.
A paradigm on draymans...
Wow. I can't believe I even read the thread all the way through, but I suppose that's one of those things that makes you realize you're addicted to the Wing Commander universe. From the nubie perspective, it all boiled down to one thing: Where da money come from?
I think the majority of 'militia' funds comes from the various local planets and bases, perhaps to include such outposts as refineries and mining platforms in the middle of nowhere. There would, of course, be some money from the Confederated government's annoying taxes, but on the whole, it'd be local money. If the locals could afford a Paradigm, then perhaps they should have one. National Guard units (funded primarily on state funds) in the US sometimes outfit their deploying units with /considerably/ superior equipment to Federal (Confederated) active duty units deploying overseas. I know, cause I was one of those underfunded units Over There, envying the National Guard guys from Oregon and Washington state.
So, since this is a 'local' decision on how much money to throw into the system, perhaps we could compromise, and put down percentages. Say, a 5-10% chance of a militia having a paradigm, and a 15-35% chance of them having a drayman -- versus standard gladiuses, talons, or perhaps even a small chance (5-10%, again?) of galaxies or broadswords...
Hell, we've got a remake on our hands! That doesn't mean we have to make it identical to the old one! Let's make it better! Add some variety! Add some spice! Have some fun with this! And if I jump into a nowhere point like Pender's Star, I can always wonder /who the heck/ is funding that militia paradigm, broadsword, two draymans, and four talons, all... wanting a donut. Although, the odds are I'd just run into two talons running a traffic stop. "Hey! Slow down! You might ram someone coming out of the jump point! Uh... You the coffee run?"
Wow. I can't believe I even read the thread all the way through, but I suppose that's one of those things that makes you realize you're addicted to the Wing Commander universe. From the nubie perspective, it all boiled down to one thing: Where da money come from?
I think the majority of 'militia' funds comes from the various local planets and bases, perhaps to include such outposts as refineries and mining platforms in the middle of nowhere. There would, of course, be some money from the Confederated government's annoying taxes, but on the whole, it'd be local money. If the locals could afford a Paradigm, then perhaps they should have one. National Guard units (funded primarily on state funds) in the US sometimes outfit their deploying units with /considerably/ superior equipment to Federal (Confederated) active duty units deploying overseas. I know, cause I was one of those underfunded units Over There, envying the National Guard guys from Oregon and Washington state.
So, since this is a 'local' decision on how much money to throw into the system, perhaps we could compromise, and put down percentages. Say, a 5-10% chance of a militia having a paradigm, and a 15-35% chance of them having a drayman -- versus standard gladiuses, talons, or perhaps even a small chance (5-10%, again?) of galaxies or broadswords...
Hell, we've got a remake on our hands! That doesn't mean we have to make it identical to the old one! Let's make it better! Add some variety! Add some spice! Have some fun with this! And if I jump into a nowhere point like Pender's Star, I can always wonder /who the heck/ is funding that militia paradigm, broadsword, two draymans, and four talons, all... wanting a donut. Although, the odds are I'd just run into two talons running a traffic stop. "Hey! Slow down! You might ram someone coming out of the jump point! Uh... You the coffee run?"
Bandit LOAF said:
Not just normal SAR but things like disaster rescue, chemical spills things like that
You should see the kind of gear most major metropolitan fire departments have. Were talking Blue Bird buses modified to carry gear. Actually the LAPD has a large Blue Bird bus modified to transport its Riot squad, were talking a vehicle capable of moving 40 officers.
Plus it would act as a tug for larger vessels that have been disabled, and all sorts of miscilanious things.
A Draymond is not a major unit, if independent civilians own them by the boat load (and Im not talking corporations here, just Joe Blow who's got good buisness sense) I dont see why a militia couldnt have them since they would be pretty damn usefull for their job, and not cost an arm and a leg to maintain, like heavier dedicated warships.
Dire Wolf
Spaceman
Khavik said:
Well, there was a little bit of forerunner/Steltek nanotechnology still active when they came to the sector. Someone set down a talon on what turned out to be the imaging disk for the nanotech fab plant and it has been turning out talons ever since. That is why pirates and retros and militias all have them and why the base price for a talon is around 5,000 credits (though the parts are fused, so that you can't upgrade or change the weapons on a standard nano-extruded talon -- and the jump drive can only do three jumps between refueling).
The improved Talon actually costs money, but it comes from the homeworld area where it is being decommissioned and sold out to the provinces.
spiritplumber
Spaceman
I think it's more akin to being able to buy a semi-working VW bug for $200 or a Fiat Cinquecento for a little more -- they're no longer made, but there's such a load of them still around due to the basic, rugged design that you can get them real cheap. Don't miss the adventures of Kirby the Love Talon on TCN!
On the other hand, admittedly Talons blow up very easily. Maybe there's some company that tractors in the bits and pieces and puts them back together after scraping the bits of pilot off the seat...
On the other hand, admittedly Talons blow up very easily. Maybe there's some company that tractors in the bits and pieces and puts them back together after scraping the bits of pilot off the seat...
Dire Wolf
Spaceman
motti said:My problem with all this fuss is as unlikely as it is that a militia has a capital ship, it is still more unlikely that space is sooo void (
I can fly through 3-4 systems and not ONE ship (except pirates and kilrathi) turn up and this is something I don't think is in the idea of a Confederation that has populated dozens of system.
I just met two paradigms in New Detroit (two!!), who didn't even launch space fighters to fight 6 dralthis. And guess, one jump to Perry and you will see the capital of Confed-military void of any ships, except Kilrathi... that's scary in a way..
Hmm, in the original, there were never random Kilrathi in the Perry system (only mission enemies) and lots of confed ships.
yes it would be a lot easier to balance the encounters with actual encounter tables instead of the dynamic universe thing we use today to simulate the traversal of actual flightgroups around gemini.
a table could be as simple as a csv table or something--the python changes would be trivial in the random_encounters.py
a table could be as simple as a csv table or something--the python changes would be trivial in the random_encounters.py
I would liken the Militia in Privateer to that of Reserves or National Guard. They are usually the ones doing the so called 'policeing' in conquered territories or country...
The 'Regulars' or Confed would be the actual army fighting in the front line.
Police would be more to the civilian point of protection in times of peace and as a passive defence>? in WC i think the game addresses the war thats happening...and i dun think the 'Police' would be directly involved in it...
i dun think i wanna send out a 'Police' with a standard revolver against ppl carrying assult rifles.... hhehe
The 'Regulars' or Confed would be the actual army fighting in the front line.
Police would be more to the civilian point of protection in times of peace and as a passive defence>? in WC i think the game addresses the war thats happening...and i dun think the 'Police' would be directly involved in it...
i dun think i wanna send out a 'Police' with a standard revolver against ppl carrying assult rifles.... hhehe
All this talk about malitias an such... to me it is very simple. Even if a milita is a local/regional police force, isn't that just describeing a police force, I'm not american, but NYPD, LAPD ring a bell? in england, we have local police forces, that are sub devided into buroughs, (surrey, yorkshire etc) and then further divided into local towns cities which have police stations (guildford, burmingham). The point is that the police as i know them are a method of local controal each haveing their own duristriction. and as pointed out you call them 'pigs' and make donught jokes (classic police bashing)
Now asuming for all intence pourposes that the milita is the police, the way they are armed mostly depends on 2 things. Firstly the percieved threat, for instance, the police in guildford carry a gun and a batton and drive around in cars. the police in Iraq ware bullet proof vests, carry machine guns, grenades, and drive armord trucks. the reason, as they are under constant attack from insergents, where as the police in guildford only have to worry about drunken pop singers who assalt black people in toilets of clubs. the next factor is of course money, the american soldiers(who are acting like police) have tanks and such, the iraq police have trucks.
as for milita haveing capships. I personally think they should, in areas of trouble (such as in northern ireland) the police force would often block the road with armord cars and search everyone. If a system is constantly inundated with pirates, kilrathi, or retros, would it not make sense to make the space equivilent of road blocks in the sourounding systems? then you can intercept insergents before they reach the system you are protecting, and thus minimise disruption and dammage, and if the block fails it gives enough time to gather forces to intercept.
I'm a diehard privateer fan, however i'm baffled at people who want to make it exactly like the original. the way i see it, back then they where limited in what they could do, and the game was by no means perfict. for instance:
look at how many diffrent makes and models of cars there are today, and people think that in the furure there will only be 4 diffrent types of ship avalible to the every day consumer? and not only that but of the 4 ships that you could get in privateer only 2 where any good, the tarsus sucks. the orion is a tank, but shooting down orions is like shooting fish in a barrel.
in the original privateer the battles where too small, everything came in waves, and it was too easy. capships, didnt have enough fire power, in my dos box verstion i can go head to head with a paragidm and i win evey time, now with the AI, when i am crusing in my drathi, the sight of a paragidm strikes fear in my heart, and i actually have to think about how i am going to blow it up.
my main problem is with the ships, i think there arent enough, you soon get very bord of blowing up talons, all the time. i like big battles, and i think that every faction (bar hunters and merchants) should have cap ships, especially the retros although maby not the pirates. why? well the kilrathi are the alien race bent on human distruction of course they have an army. the retros are essentially terrorists, who are pissed off that they are forced to live a life they think is wrong, they are not so well armed, but well orginised and deturmined. terrorists tend to fight with what ever they can get their hands on, they convert every day things into wepons, so it would be good to see some converted draymans or what ever as retro capships, to enable the assemble of atack forces and more than anything just to bring some variation into the battles, i get pretty bored blowing up an 'atack force' that consists only of 18 talons.
pirates, I see them as esentially the equlivelent of gangsters, the mafia, triads etc. so firstly it would be cool to split them up in to sub factions, which would enable you to form aliances with some, and participate in turf wars.
I just yern for bigger better battles, like in some of the wc titles, yet i love the freedom of privateer. To me there is not enough to set the units apart, there are cap ships and heavy fighters, light fighters, it dosent make sense that i can take out a capship with relitive ease in a light fighter, (to me its like i blew up a tank with a machine gun and a few grenades). the player should have to make decisions about their equipment based on their fighting style, forinstance, the deamon is with out a doubt the best ship in the game at the moment, you have serious fire power speed and manoveribility, the orion just sucks, its slow, un manoverable, with crap all wepon mounts. its a simple choice. how could people possibly object to bringin in some of the clasic WC ships? it would add so much to the game, i would relish the oppertunity to take place in battles between capships of rival factions, even just sit back and watch the fun.
my ideal privateer though would be where you can form your own faction, and decide what they do bounty hunters, merchants, pirates/smuglers, insergants.
sorry this is way too long....
Now asuming for all intence pourposes that the milita is the police, the way they are armed mostly depends on 2 things. Firstly the percieved threat, for instance, the police in guildford carry a gun and a batton and drive around in cars. the police in Iraq ware bullet proof vests, carry machine guns, grenades, and drive armord trucks. the reason, as they are under constant attack from insergents, where as the police in guildford only have to worry about drunken pop singers who assalt black people in toilets of clubs. the next factor is of course money, the american soldiers(who are acting like police) have tanks and such, the iraq police have trucks.
as for milita haveing capships. I personally think they should, in areas of trouble (such as in northern ireland) the police force would often block the road with armord cars and search everyone. If a system is constantly inundated with pirates, kilrathi, or retros, would it not make sense to make the space equivilent of road blocks in the sourounding systems? then you can intercept insergents before they reach the system you are protecting, and thus minimise disruption and dammage, and if the block fails it gives enough time to gather forces to intercept.
I'm a diehard privateer fan, however i'm baffled at people who want to make it exactly like the original. the way i see it, back then they where limited in what they could do, and the game was by no means perfict. for instance:
look at how many diffrent makes and models of cars there are today, and people think that in the furure there will only be 4 diffrent types of ship avalible to the every day consumer? and not only that but of the 4 ships that you could get in privateer only 2 where any good, the tarsus sucks. the orion is a tank, but shooting down orions is like shooting fish in a barrel.
in the original privateer the battles where too small, everything came in waves, and it was too easy. capships, didnt have enough fire power, in my dos box verstion i can go head to head with a paragidm and i win evey time, now with the AI, when i am crusing in my drathi, the sight of a paragidm strikes fear in my heart, and i actually have to think about how i am going to blow it up.
my main problem is with the ships, i think there arent enough, you soon get very bord of blowing up talons, all the time. i like big battles, and i think that every faction (bar hunters and merchants) should have cap ships, especially the retros although maby not the pirates. why? well the kilrathi are the alien race bent on human distruction of course they have an army. the retros are essentially terrorists, who are pissed off that they are forced to live a life they think is wrong, they are not so well armed, but well orginised and deturmined. terrorists tend to fight with what ever they can get their hands on, they convert every day things into wepons, so it would be good to see some converted draymans or what ever as retro capships, to enable the assemble of atack forces and more than anything just to bring some variation into the battles, i get pretty bored blowing up an 'atack force' that consists only of 18 talons.
pirates, I see them as esentially the equlivelent of gangsters, the mafia, triads etc. so firstly it would be cool to split them up in to sub factions, which would enable you to form aliances with some, and participate in turf wars.
I just yern for bigger better battles, like in some of the wc titles, yet i love the freedom of privateer. To me there is not enough to set the units apart, there are cap ships and heavy fighters, light fighters, it dosent make sense that i can take out a capship with relitive ease in a light fighter, (to me its like i blew up a tank with a machine gun and a few grenades). the player should have to make decisions about their equipment based on their fighting style, forinstance, the deamon is with out a doubt the best ship in the game at the moment, you have serious fire power speed and manoveribility, the orion just sucks, its slow, un manoverable, with crap all wepon mounts. its a simple choice. how could people possibly object to bringin in some of the clasic WC ships? it would add so much to the game, i would relish the oppertunity to take place in battles between capships of rival factions, even just sit back and watch the fun.
my ideal privateer though would be where you can form your own faction, and decide what they do bounty hunters, merchants, pirates/smuglers, insergants.
sorry this is way too long....