Memory Lane

ELTEE

Vice Admiral
Hi all!

I should have supported the new initiative for additional threads sooner, but life has so far prevented me from participating....:mad:

As a relatively new member, I thought it might be interesting to see how different people found their way to the CIC. Was it internet searching, word of mouth, etc...What did you think on your first visit?

As a bonus, maybe some of the original members could share quick memories on their experiences surrounding the beginning of the CIC. After spending a few years watching and finally participating in the forum, I can sort of piece together how things began, but I would love some insight into how this great place evolved into what it is today.

I'll go first...I've always loved space sims and began searching in ernest for all things Wing Commander a few years ago. My searches finally landed me here, and I've been coming back ever since.

A hearty thanks goes out to everyone that makes this place possible...I always look forward to my next visit to the CIC!
 
The CIC is link number two on google. Number one is IMDB article on the movie. Given that this updates (which surprised the heck out of me, to be honest) almost daily...
 
To be quite honest, I don't remember. I visited only the website for years before finally checking out the forums. I remember visiting and seeing info on the movie way back. Beyond that, the memory is a bit foggy.
 
I came into the WC community about 1996 or so, give or take a bit. My first WC contact was Privateer, but at that time I didn't have reliable access to anything but AOL, and they charged for online time, limiting my attention there (though I did run up, on average, $300/month phone bills, calling the Origin BBS in Texas, all the way from Groton, CT :p ).

I started hanging out in the newsgroup alt.games.wing-commander, and from there got into IRC, on #w-c.

From there it's all been downhill, and I've loved most of it. :)

(I think my biggest achievement in the WC community was suggesting the name for #wingnut, back when the CIC was setting up. Well, that and being an asshole admin once the CIC's CZ went live. :D Not that getting a nod in S*S [GSGT Poore, introducing the weapons section] wasn't an achievement, but it wasn't as big of one, IMO.)
 
I only had the opportunity to use the Internet for the first time in 2000, and of course Wing Commander was one of the first things (if not the first) I searched for. Keeping in mind that this was before Google became famous and super-popular, I think I first found a little fan project called Unknown Enemy. :) But it wasn't long after that I found the CIC and have stuck around ever since.
 
I came into the WC community around 1994 through alt.games.wing-commander and #wing-commander on DALnet.

I remember the countdown in 1998 when the CIC went online and how great it's been since then, although it's too bad that all the forum posts from 1998 to 2000 were lost. Still the CIC front page and CZ is the biggest repository of WC information, well anywhere.

When the CIC first started it wasn't anything like you see today. We didn't have any CIC colors besides the main news section and posts were being split between the CZ here and a.g.w-c. It was an exciting time with Secret Ops coming out in its episodic fashion. Wingnuts were on edge and hopefully of a promising future.

Why we haven't seen a major release in a while, this place is a testament to the dedication we all still feel for a great series.
 
As a relatively new member, I thought it might be interesting to see how different people found their way to the CIC. Was it internet searching, word of mouth, etc...What did you think on your first visit?

Well, of course the actual answer is easy for me - I had a thing or two to do with the CIC getting out the door in the first place. But I'm not one to pass up an opportunity to tell a long and uninteresting story, so here goes...

My first experience with Wing Commander online was via Compuserv's Flight Sims group in 1992-93. If no one remembers Compuserv, they can be forgiven - it was like AOL without the sex, drugs and rock and roll... its only enduringly amusing element was that instead of names everybody got a giant number for their ID. To contact your friend you'd have to know he was user 3182013824 or somesuch. This persisted through the transition to email and so giant email lists in the mid 90s always had things like 80128302.238212@compuserv.net included in them. It was one of the rare large services that let you access it from Europe, so it was my dad's online entity of choice (he worked for IBM and they sent him all over.)

There was an online discussion group that I was mostly too shy to participate in, but they eventually formed a group of some sort (Privateers Guild? Pilots Club? I can't even remember.) I submitted my callsign and number of kills and such and they'd publish everyones information in a user-created MS Word newsletter every quarter or so. The things were huge - as many as 200kb on a service that monitered your download... so I'd have to ask my dad for permission (and he'd always say yes, because in retrospect 200kb wasn't remotely expensive.) The only other thing I remember about Compuserv was seeing chat transcripts with my Wing Commander hero, Chris Roberts! I should have gone to the actual events, in long retrospect... I called the Origin BBS exactly once in late '93 or early '94 - I was having trouble with Privateer crashing and someone was actually online who helped me. Maybe Death?!

In 1994, my dad took classes (or taught? I don't remember) at Johns Hopkins and that gave us access to their dialup internet service. This was *it*, the real wild west that became the crummy, crummy internet you see before you today. We're talking a couple of websites... I remember watching the Wing Commander groups spring up: the TCU, the Aces Club (which was *almost* always completely inaccessible!), the Jump Gate... our ancestors. I also followed alt.games.wing-commander as soon as it started - the original Netscape had a great newsreading feature that they traded for something my 14 year old self couldn't figure out. I watched the early days of agwc and agwc3, though - a little bit of fan fiction, some friendly chat, etc.

I stretched '10 free hours' a few times over experimenting with AOL. terrified that the time would disappear, I'd log in, save everything I could from the Wing Commander area and log out. I also chatted live for the first time - I was something like KTolwyn and I never met anyone who got the reference (which I thought was *oh so obscure* at the time.) I ran into someone named Drakhai at some point, but they were only interested in creepy internet sex and not Wing Commander. Oh, AOL.

In 1995 we got a regular ISP (Erols!) and I started my actual internet career. That was the year that Origin opened the place I considered (and still consider) the holiest in the world: Origin's Official Wing Commander Chat Zone. It was the Algonquin Round Table of Wing Commander fandom - just fast back and forth about all things Wing Commander with all the greats of the era... ace, Eagle, Skyfox, Bearcat... LOAF... I posted there every day from the first to the last, and the group had some amazing experiences. Coming to the forum to see what had happened and to get my two cents in was the highlight of my days in those days - which were pretty dark in general, suffering from some nasty eye problems that required many surgeries.

Soon after, Bearcat started #Wing-Commander on the DALnet, which perfected the group even further. We all became great friends. It was a magical time that I can't really explain... I'm glad to know several of the people from those days still today. We also began a lot of relationships with Origin guys which continue to this day - we have always been incredibly lucky with the amount of dedication they've shown to our interest.

Then there was Akkbar and WCHS in that same year. Akkbar started 'Introspection's Wing Commander Home Sector', which was one of the great early Wing Commander sites. It was a news site which updated periodically with longer stories - interview with someone, commentary on something, etc.

I started building my own Wing commander site, too - the "Combat Information Center" Nothing ever really came of the concept (aside from a cool logo which I wish I still had)... but a year or so in I started a 'Wing Commander 5 News' page and a 'Wing commander Movie News' page. These were smash hits, because I was obsessive - I had *everything* about either of those subjects the minute it appeared. It was just a bulleted list of facts, plus links to screenshots when I got them. Almost no design whatsoever.

Akkbar saw that my crummy litle mostly-text site (and Chris' newsgroup page, which worked the same way) was getting all the attention and offered us jobs working at WCHS. We took them and transformed the site - daily updates, a chat zone, really well done interviews instead of fluff pieces, no more stupidly critical editorials. That was where the CIC started - where we got our drive, our philosophy, everything.

Akkbar was a ruthless promoter - unfortunately, he was more interested in self promotion than he was in Wing Commander. He wanted an internet job, he wanted to make money from WCHS, etc., etc. He was also a jerk - promising to share things from Origin and then keeping them for himself. He tried all sorts of stupid things that risked ruining the site - having advertisements (we rebeled and he relented), adding other space sims (we rebeled and he created a separate 'Introspection' site for some stupid pre-MMP MMP game that sucked up to him). Then he disappeared for months and months... during which time he apparently didn't pay his internet bill and the site was taken offline.

Chris and I took everything we had from the site and put it on my server - loaf.pi.se, provided by Reaper (where are you, buddy?). We announced to everyone that we would start a new site in the near future, but that until it was ready we would run WCHS-in-exile ourselves. The last days of WCHS were a fun time, finally having creative control over everything and figuring out how the replacement would work.

We put a lot of thought into the 'new' CIC. No more system of leaders (Akkbar famously credited himself for five or so different things in the site's credits page), absolutely no advertising, a focus on archiving information and doing deeper researched articles rather than just publishing news. Basically incorporating elements from some of the late great sites (I'm looking at you, TCU) and improving them. Updates *every* day! In one of history's great coincidences, Neil Young came to Chris and I (yes, *that* Neil Young - that Electronic Arts Vice President) and said he wanted to host WCHS on Origin's servers. We said no, we'd build a new site - a better site... and then we did! I hope.

(Edit: I really miss the original CIC menus, too. Phoenix built them and they were *stunning*. These wonderful multicolor mouseovers for each link... the only problem was that they were such a huge pain to add, maintain and load.)

(Space Point)
 
Wow, thanks for a really great story, LOAF. Coming on to the Internet only in the dying gasps of the last millennium, I didn't have the opportunity to experience the 'world wide web' in its infancy, so that gives a lot of interesting history on the CIC and the WC community in general.
 
I came into the WC community about 1996 or so, give or take a bit. My first WC contact was Privateer, but at that time I didn't have reliable access to anything but AOL, and they charged for online time, limiting my attention there (though I did run up, on average, $300/month phone bills, calling the Origin BBS in Texas, all the way from Groton, CT :p ).

Yeah, I used to get in trouble constantly for spending too much money on AOL. I totally understand what LOAF would do by taking the information off-line to really go through and digest it. I would dread "that time of the month" when the bill would come and the inevitable discussion would take place...

I am still amazed when I look at the internet today how close-knit communities can be even when made up of people from around the globe. I have certainly found the CIC to be among the best of the best, regardless of category or creed.

I can say that I understand the feeling of looking forward to giving input on a discussion here, catching up on the latest news or just brushing up on my WC history. WC has certainly had a profound effect on my life, inspiring my imagination and offering a brilliant place to spend time in when life tries its hardest to thwart my existence. Getting older only changes the interaction - never diminishing the joy.

Thanks for all who have posted so far! It's great to know a little more about the beginnings of a great community.
 
I don't mean to derail or anything, but LOAF's post reminded me of a question I had been meaning to ask. How is the CIC supported? All this bandwidth can't be cheap!
 
I called the Origin BBS exactly once in late '93 or early '94 - I was having trouble with Privateer crashing and someone was actually online who helped me. Maybe Death?!

Not likely. I hadn't been bitten by the WC bug until the summer of that year, and didn't get involved with Origin's BBS until later that summer, with a blazing fast 2400 baud modem.

(Actually, 2400 was kinda mediocre even then, but since my previous experience was a 300 baud modem for an Apple ][e, it was like God's Own Connection as far as I was concerned.)
 
Oh, I could talk about the old days forever.

They were a strange time - both savage and honorable. Being a jerk on newsgroups meant people had no qualms about calling your boss and getting you fired... but you still had flamewars that ended with peace settlements and friendships. It's hard to express how alien it is compared to the internet today.

I don't mean to derail or anything, but LOAF's post reminded me of a question I had been meaning to ask. How is the CIC supported? All this bandwidth can't be cheap!

It is not cheap. The CIC staff pays for the server together, with the total cost divided amongst us. We don't believe in begging for money or selling advertising or anything of that sort.
 
The TCU was the first WC site I really discovered. I remember printing out every page of the ships stats with all the pictures and text and putting them in a big three ring binder. I read them over and over and over again whenever I could.

They were some fun days back then. I can still remember the insanity #w-c went through when a Origin employee showed up. Boomer teasing us with stuff about SO before it's release. Oh what great days gone by.
 
I don't mean to derail or anything, but LOAF's post reminded me of a question I had been meaning to ask. How is the CIC supported? All this bandwidth can't be cheap!


Not at all...this is why I started the thread, to learn more about this place!

LOAF, while I appreciate that viewpoint on advertising, I know I would be up for contributing. I certainly wouldn't perceive it as "begging" for money. If anything, it might be a cool way to contribute to WC as a whole. Not all of us can do amazing fan projects. I think it's only natural for members to want to support their community.

On another note, it might be fun to have a 'who's who' of the CIC, or maybe even WC itself. Sure, we have the encyclopedia, but this could focus on real world people and events that result in the community we have today.
 
LOAF, while I appreciate that viewpoint on advertising, I know I would be up for contributing. I certainly wouldn't perceive it as "begging" for money. If anything, it might be a cool way to contribute to WC as a whole. Not all of us can do amazing fan projects. I think it's only natural for members to want to support their community.

Thank you, that's very kind of you to offer... but I don't think I need to take advantage of the community unless there's a real serious need. I do know, absolutely, that you folks would pitch in if there were ever an emergency. I just don't ever want to be a burden on the community - I'm here to buoy it, not drag it down.

If money is burning a hole in your pocket, though, use it to spread the word. Grab copies of some of the old games for your friends ro relatives or children... or save it to bid on something when an Origin guy puts more items up for sale on eBay.

There also may come a time when we ask for money... but it'll be for a particular service rather than just our existence, which is our gift to everybody. If someone comes to me and says 'for a thousand dollars you can have the WC Movie Rough Cut or Pilgrim Truth or WC2 SNES or something', then you can bet I'll think twice about asking everyone to chip in. :)
 
As a bonus, maybe some of the original members could share quick memories on their experiences surrounding the beginning of the CIC. After spending a few years watching and finally participating in the forum, I can sort of piece together how things began, but I would love some insight into how this great place evolved into what it is today.

This is a great thread.

In early 1995 I got a 14.4 modem and AOL and visited the Keyword: Origin area. That was pretty neat, but AOL didn't have actual web access at the time. It was also $3 an hour. I found the Origin website from school in late 95/early 96 and was dazzled by all the Wing Commander IV stuff. In 1996 I got my first standard ISP and was really able to start connecting with some of the people who make up the Wing Commander community today.

The alt.games.wing-commander newsgroup was my big thing. Do people even know what newsgroups are today? Before there were forums on the web (before there was a world wide web), there was a system for organizing discussions on the internet. You used a program that was like an email reader to post messages to threaded discussions. Threads had lots of branches, unlike the consecutive first-to-last posts that you typically see in something like vbulletin today.

Newsreaders and email clients were often integrated, so everyone used their real name instead of some callsign. That's why you have have ChrisReid and KrisV today instead of Stalker and Sivar. Kris and I were the top posters. From 1996 to 2001, I posted over 27,000 posts and Kris more than 7000. Delance was also close, and he, Kris and I were huge rivals. I got to know Death and Hades very well there. Haesslich, Karl Frank/CFF and Ed Filho as well.

In the fall of 1996 another agwc poster and the founder of #Wing-Commander, Bearcat, introduced me to irc. That's where I met and really got to know LOAF, ace and Trelane. There were others too, but many have disappeared over the years. Along with Death's help, we founded #Wingnut in early 1997. By then I'd also made a webpage for agwc with a FAQ, list of posters and tied it in with the "WC News" section on my personal homepage. It's about this point that my story begins to merge with LOAF's. I was "Newsgroup News Correspondent" for WCHS at first, and eventually we were doing all the day-to-day functions of the site.

The CIC came together in the summer of 1998. I remember thinking that we were so late - that we'd arrived on the scene so much later than so many other Wing Commander sites and we had to really work hard to make a name for ourselves. Acting as something of a successor to WCHS and being linked from the Secret Ops website helped.

These are just the basics. I could go on for hours about this stuff, so feel free to ask any questions. I'm not sure how a couple years as part of the WC community turned into twelve. Also like LOAF said, the internet was very different then:

They were a strange time - both savage and honorable. Being a jerk on newsgroups meant people had no qualms about calling your boss and getting you fired... but you still had flamewars that ended with peace settlements and friendships. It's hard to express how alien it is compared to the internet today.

----

The CIC is link number two on google. Number one is IMDB article on the movie. Given that this updates (which surprised the heck out of me, to be honest) almost daily...

Sometimes it varies. The top three spots juggle between the CIC, IMDB and Wikipedia. I've seen the CIC in the top spot while Kris loads it at the same time and we're second or third.
 
Another thing about the internet back then was that everyone was a lot smarter. :) You had to function on a pretty high level just to connect in th first place... and then all the more to get a newsreader or an IRC client running. Of course, we frustrated the *previous* generation of internet users who were mostly the particle physicists and high level engineers and such who built the thing...
 
The Internet truly was "fool-proof" back then. :>

I remember everyone that you might meet on IRC was pretty well trustworthy, and you would have no second-qualms about knowing people on a first name basis and trading picture.

"e-stalking" and Internet predation really did not exist at this time
 
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