Major changes to WC:T

honestly, to me, it sounds like you're using the WC universe as a crutch because you're either incapable or not willing to come up with a visual style unique to your little story verse.
 
Not to be adversive to anyone, but I have to say that I personally find Standoff more enjoyable than Unknown Enemy, simply because Unknown Enemy seems a bit fanboyish. It was a great game, and a great prject, but Scimitars against Devil Rays seemed sort of strange to me. Standoff, on the other hand, feels like Wing Commander... it just seems right.

I think you might end up with the same reaction that I personally had to Unknown Enemy on a much larger scale by implimenting the messian Kilrathi storyline. It might seem sort of strange, or silly.

Maybe you should just stick your timeline 30 or 50 years into the future... that's probablyenough time for an empire to recover somewhat... 2,000 years seems drastic.
 
Beeing a ...what they call it here...fanboy...I know how tempting it is to bring in new designs and ideas...or old ones in this case.
I have got about 3-4 different designs for the WC Universe..or lets say inspired by it and I am part of a mod that I want to use...but I don't do it know because its the wrong time. Also timeline when you think about what timeline we have for the mod.

I don' want to say that you should scrap everything...but take step by step.
If you want to continue the story its ok with me but not in that drastic way. Take the difficulte path of taking the loose ends we have end develop them to something serious and belivable. I think their will be enough room for new ideas and designs without dissconection oneself from the rest of the universe as you have done it.
You have even given some points in your story that could be told.

I realy don't see a reason to splitt everything. Wing Commander lived from its continuing storyline where every part was "based" on the other.
Ok their are some strange gaps that happend but the basic story is one.

Look at what Origin original did, get the idea and then proceed...don't force things in that dosn't fit.

I don't want this mod to die...but also I don't want a storyline and design that is so much appart from WC that it could be a complete different game.

PS: Two things about your curent storyline...it strongly remindet me of Battletech and Warhammer 40k.
 
ChrisReid said:
Hopefully that didn't set you back too much.
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I don't know what happened actually, seems like the board pages lost their connection to the SQL Databases (which appear to have been at least temporarily deleted). It was a little funky. We had about an hour of downtime, but then we were back up.

Our contract with the present server expires soon, and we'll be introducing a whole slew of changes, amoung which are switching to a new host because our present one just isn't that reliable.
 
I'll say again that it definitely pays to go with a reliable provider. The cost is secondary. You also have to watch out for contracts. A lot of decent providers don't have them, and a lot of crappy ones do.
 
Chevieblazer said:
ok, i get your point that nobody is supposed to expand the wc universe as it is, but actually, the wc universe doesn't fall into a black hole just because ea doesn't want to use the license any more.
i mean, what about the yuuzan vong and the expanded star wars universe? isn't all that different, really, or an even better example, knights of the old republic. is set 4000 years before the 6 canon star wars titles. and yet it is still very much star wars.
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And yet, half the SW fans don't even know about the expanded universe at all, and 99% of all SW gamers everywhere still prefer playing the billionth re-enactment of "Vader's Star Destroyers vs Luke's X-Wings" or "Snowspeeders vs. AT-ATs."

I agree that Knights of the Old Republic is a really good example: since Lucasarts made it and since it's the only single-player SW RPG around, everyone plays it. If a fan had come up with the idea, you'd never have heard about it because it'd never have been finished (because nobody would help this great visionary finish his innovative game).

Again, nobody has any reason to believe a fan is capable of going 4000 years away from the main series without giving in to the temptation of destroying the parts *he* doesn't like about it without thinking of other fans' tastes. I mean, he already has gone through the trouble of steering away from the timeline that *everyone except him* loves - that's already as negative a message as you can send to the other fans, IMHO. It's clearly a statement along the lines of "I will make stuff up to my heart's content until *I* am happy with the universe I've created."

I would understand if you were *really* trying to do something positive by not keeping the series "stagnated" and confined to the timeframe we've seen in official games... but even if that's really your goal, which I don't believe it is, you're doing it wrong and it'll ruin your mod. If you want to extend the timeline the proper way, make a pre-WC1 game with the information we have from the novels (Pioneer) or a game that develops the bug war a bit more (UE), or even go crazy and make a game set in the Tri-System area which we know so little about.

Jumping 1500 years in the future is an excuse to do whatever you want with the franchise, it's not a valid attempt at developing a new story set in that universe.
 
I feel like I just got punched in the gut. I was so very much looking forward to a WC1&2 era MOD...I don't know what to say...I feel so bumbed out. Time to go remove Nexus from my Christmas list I guess.

What was so wrong with pulling together a story/campaign from WC1&2+Secret Ops material anyhow?
 
In response to what Eder said, the 4000 Year Era before the original Movies has also been thought out and established, and all of that happened well before the game was ever released.

There is in fact a whole comic series about the Rise and Fall of the Sith Empire that takes place before the game (and provides some back story - note, I said some), as well as establishing some traditions for the Jedi Order we have all come to love so much.

In addition to that when the SWRPG License was in West End Games hand, they put out an entire campaign based around the events of this era.

That would be a valid defense here if this mod was based around some event in the WC timeline we know nothing about, but it's not.

You're just looking for an excuse to keep the WC name on the project, when in reality you should just drop the WC name and make your own Sci-Fi universe to play around in.
 
you see, nobody would like to see this mod be real wc1 than me.
i'd love to have the rapier called rapier and look like a rapier and not the "sagitarius",


i'd like to have the exeter as an exeter and not the pretorian

´
and the hornet as such and not the killerbee


but i just did not believe you would accept it.

i mean, would you accept the tiger's claw being present at the beginning of the kilrathi war, caused by the destruction of the colony on dakotha2?
would you accept chris blair and spirit being a couple, and her death by the hands of baktosh redclaw putting hin on a revenge trip with a deathwish?
would you accept a number of kilrathi super dreadnaughts , so large only an anti-matter bomb can kill it attack earth?
would you accept that later, the kilrathi would again attempt to attack earth and succed with it?

no you wouldn't, because i wouldn't in you position.i know the irritation i felt when microsoft decided to just change a few mechs around for mech warrior 4 (though i did actually like the game), and that is one of the reasons i'd never accept mech assault to be battletech canon.

and this is exactly why i chose not to force this into the wc1 timeframe. it was supposed to be there(which is why i modeled the rapiers, raptors, exeters, bengals and ralaris in the first place. actually, i have no idea what the kilrathi destroyer will look like, because it was never mean to anything else but a ralari.

this story is the only reason this mod exists in the first place, and it cost me a few nights when i realized that it woulnd't fit where it was supposed to, i've running around with this problem for a month before i decided that the only way to salvage the situation was to change the time frame.
yes, you could just aswell put it into the original messian rebellion, i suppose, but after what eder and many others said i also suppose it doesn't matter wether it is set 60, 120 or 1200 years after the wc canon ends.

sorry for the typos, but it's really late over here and i'm rally tired, but i can't sleep without having said this
sorry for being so pathetic
 
Having a bunch of crazy stuff at the beginning of the war or set 4000 years in the future is still a bunch of crazy stuff. If you want to make a Nexus mod full of a bunch of crazy disparate elements, just do it. Don't even bother trying to saddle it on top of Wing Commander if you just want to make your own random scifi game. I really don't see how this is such a silly hangup. You wanted to make Blair and Spirit a couple.. but that doesn't work.. so you throw us thousands of years in the future? Why are you so stuck on these weirdo elements? I don't know what to call that.. uncreative? Ridiculous? Disingenuous? How hard is it to make two brand new pilots and call them a couple? If you want to have the Kilrathi successfully destroy Earth, just do it. Saying it happens in August 4013 doesn't make it any more legitimate than saying it happens in 2654. Why bother having it be connected to Wing Commander at all at all at this point? If you're going to spin out the timeline so far that everything is of your own conception, just make your own universe up. I don't mean to beat you up over this, but you're making such drastic changes for reasons that don't seem to stack up.
 
so what you're saying ultimately, is you are using WC as a crutch, so you have your art stuff neatly packaged for you...only you change a little bit and say 'thousands of years in the future' instead of just saying, 'this has nothing to do with wing commander, he's my new ultra tech sci-fiverse folks!' or something. that's what it sounds like to me. you'd really be better of just developing the concept further, generating some new less wc-esque artwork, and allowing this little idea to stand on its own two feet.
 
Chevieblazer said:
you see, nobody would like to see this mod be real wc1 than me. i'd love to have the rapier called rapier and look like a rapier and not the "sagitarius",i'd like to have the exeter as an exeter and not the pretorian and the hornet as such and not the killerbee but i just did not believe you would accept it.
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That's ridiculous. You don't want this to be WC1 - or you'd do WC1. You'd do your best to adhere to everything we know, and try to embellish as little as possible.

Chevieblazer said:
i mean, would you accept the tiger's claw being present at the beginning of the kilrathi war, caused by the destruction of the colony on dakotha2?
would you accept chris blair and spirit being a couple, and her death by the hands of baktosh redclaw putting hin on a revenge trip with a deathwish?
would you accept a number of kilrathi super dreadnaughts so large only an anti-matter bomb can kill it attack earth?
would you accept that later, the kilrathi would again attempt to attack earth and succed with it?
no you wouldn't, because i wouldn't in you position.i know the irritation i felt when microsoft decided to just change a few mechs around for mech warrior 4 (though i did actually like the game), and that is one of the reasons i'd never accept mech assault to be battletech canon.
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You know the irritation, eh? Then why would you want to change it? You're certainly not making the story any better by changing all this - It seems you're just changing it for the sake of changing it. You're not enhancing the WC1 storyline - you're bastardizing it for no aparent reason.

Chevieblazer said:
and this is exactly why i chose not to force this into the wc1 timeframe. it was supposed to be there(which is why i modeled the rapiers, raptors, exeters, bengals and ralaris in the first place. actually, i have no idea what the kilrathi destroyer will look like, because it was never mean to anything else but a ralari.
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So, you're so intent on telling your own story, you can't change it to fit into the WC canon that we know? Wow. Those who say you should change the universe to something unique are right. Right now I figure the only thing keeping you from going ahead and doing just that is looking at all the art you've done and thinking to yourself: "Self, why should I throw all this work away? Just because I can't adhere to the stuff everyone expects? Boohoo....wait! I can just translate the timeline ahead 2000 years! BRILLIANT!"
Except it isn't brilliant - it's silly.

Chevieblazer said:
this story is the only reason this mod exists in the first place, and it cost me a few nights when i realized that it woulnd't fit where it was supposed to, i've running around with this problem for a month before i decided that the only way to salvage the situation was to change the time frame.
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I'm sure you knew this problem would come up from the very beginning - you just didn't want to deal with it. You came up with a story that had little to do with WC to begin with, and then tried to cut 'n chop the WC universe to fit the story. That's the very definition of a hack job. I wish you had explained where you were going with this mod long ago, so people could have told you that it was a bad idea. There's no shame in having a bad idea, it's when you ignore the people telling you it's a bad idea that you drift into the area of stupidity.

Chevieblazer said:
yes, you could just aswell put it into the original messian rebellion, i suppose, but after what eder and many others said i also suppose it doesn't matter wether it is set 60, 120 or 1200 years after the wc canon ends.
sorry for the typos, but it's really late over here and i'm rally tired, but i can't sleep without having said this
sorry for being so pathetic
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Yeah, I'm sorry too - it seems at this point that what you've come up with very few people will enjoy. Now you've got a few of choices - listen to those people telling you that youu've got a bit of a dud on your hands, and turn the models back into the original WC1 versions they were intended to be. Find a good story in the timeline, that we already know about, and expound on it.
Or, you can take your story, build a new universe around whatever tale you want to tell, and just bite the amount of time it would take to re-do the models.
Or, you can continue to go your way, ignore those around you, and make a game no one will enjoy.
Seems pretty simple to me.
 
Chevieblazer said:
i mean, would you accept the tiger's claw being present at the beginning of the kilrathi war, caused by the destruction of the colony on dakotha2?
would you accept chris blair and spirit being a couple, and her death by the hands of baktosh redclaw putting hin on a revenge trip with a deathwish? [...]
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Ah, so that's what this really is about - it's not that there are contradictions in the WC1 timeline which you can't work with... it's that you want to create contradictions which you know no WC fan would accept.

So, your solution is to use the exact same storyline, but 1500 years in the future and having different names for everything... Well, I'm genuinely insulted that you think doing so will make us any less perplexed at your ideas. As numerous posts in this thread have shown, WC fans are not stupid enough to buy this.

Chevieblazer said:
this story is the only reason this mod exists in the first place
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Blair and Spirit getting married then saving Earth from Kilrathi megadreadnoughts is the only reason you were going to make a mod in the first place?

To put it differently - the only reason you were going to make a mod in the first place was to twist around someone else's storyline?

That's like re-filming Titanic because you want to watch a version where it gets abducted by aliens instead of sinking.
 
Having liked and played Nexus for some time, but without exploring any mods, I must say that a mod that allows me to play with WC1 ships just in multiplayer, without the single player story, would appeal to me AND make just as successfull a fan project as something that only offered single player. I'm sure plenty of WC fans, myself included, would just like to play the tactical side of the game with the ships in multiplayer, and would find our enjoyment in that. For once it would be nice to see a "tactical" mod finished in terms of being released with skined and functional ships-- the Wing Commander mod for Homeworld was a tease, but was good while it lasted.

You "could" make the game WC1, just add the story in later once you get a comprehensive and good looking entry into multiplayer. Then watch people who don't even own nexus buying it just to have fun in the multiplayer aspect.
 
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