Longbow Gripes

frostytheplebe

frostytheplebe

Seventh Part of the Seal
Its been a long time since I did this... but here goes.

My least favorite fighters have been as follows:

1. Epee: Paper thin armor
2. Hellcat V: Boring, weak, I've just always had it in for this fighter
3. Stiletto: You do the same job as the ferret, no where near as well.
4. The Lance: There is such a thing as making things TOO easy!

I must say though, the longbow has slowly risen to the top of that list. A recent replay of Wing Commander 3 has made my dislike for this ship raise to hatred. A bomber with afterburners... as the great Chris Farley put it, "Well La De Freaken Da."

By putting afterburners on it, you have officially removed the bombing excitement of WC2, though this thing wouldn't last ten seconds without it. Its armor is unacceptably thin for the class of fighter, and it is way too slow. To boot, its primary weapons require you to be at close range with your enemy to be effective. Plasma and Neutrons don't go far. A rule of thumb in a bomber YOU DON'T WANT TO BE THAT CLOSE TO AN ENEMY FIGHTER.

I've ejected from this more times then I did the Epee now!

Anyone else feel my pain with this thing?
 
I never was a fan of the Longbow (or any other bomber) either but to scold its defenses is harsh - it's the best I ever encountered thus far. Is there any WC ship with better overall protection (barring the Arena ships)?

As for the guns - it's true that in a slow ship I'd prefer long range guns but I think most WC bomber had short range guns except the Armada Banshee (though I think she's not classed as a bomber but as a heavy fighter): Broadsword: Mass Drivers, Crossbow: Mass Drivers and Neutron Guns, Longbow: Plasma and Neutron, in WC 4 it gets a bit better with Ion cannons, Avenger: Mass Drivers and Photon (medium range IIRC), Shrike: Mass Drivers and Particle (medium to long range at least), Devastator: Plasma/Tachyon medium range.

Perhaps the reasoning is: well smaller fighters are going to swarm you anyway better to give heavy hitting guns so that if you hit, you hit hard.
 
The Longbow has its uses, and it can take quite a few hits from missiles. I don't recall any mission with it being too difficult to complete, but I was playing on Ace.
 
Mekt-Hakkikt said:
I never was a fan of the Longbow (or any other bomber) either but to scold its defenses is harsh - it's the best I ever encountered thus far. Is there any WC ship with better overall protection (barring the Arena ships)?

As for the guns - it's true that in a slow ship I'd prefer long range guns but I think most WC bomber had short range guns except the Armada Banshee (though I think she's not classed as a bomber but as a heavy fighter): Broadsword: Mass Drivers, Crossbow: Mass Drivers and Neutron Guns, Longbow: Plasma and Neutron, in WC 4 it gets a bit better with Ion cannons, Avenger: Mass Drivers and Photon (medium range IIRC), Shrike: Mass Drivers and Particle (medium to long range at least), Devastator: Plasma/Tachyon medium range.

Perhaps the reasoning is: well smaller fighters are going to swarm you anyway better to give heavy hitting guns so that if you hit, you hit hard.
Click to expand...

See, I was always a fan of the Broadsword bomber... mostly because I spent a lot of time in its turrets. But the medium ranged Mass drivers worked well for me. It was, and remains to be the best bomber I've used and I love the no afterburner bomber runs in. The cool music and wanting flak blowing up all around you. KABOOM YO!

I never knew how worthless a single tach bolt was, it just never did enough damaged have only one. When I flew the devastator, I just ignored all incoming bogeys and let the turrets handle them... still not a fan of putting afterburners on bombers but w/e.
 
Mekt-Hakkikt said:
I never was a fan of the Longbow (or any other bomber) either but to scold its defenses is harsh - it's the best I ever encountered thus far. Is there any WC ship with better overall protection (barring the Arena ships)?

As for the guns - it's true that in a slow ship I'd prefer long range guns but I think most WC bomber had short range guns

Perhaps the reasoning is: well smaller fighters are going to swarm you anyway better to give heavy hitting guns so that if you hit, you hit hard.
Click to expand...

Think about what bombers are meant for. Heavy guns (which are often the more short range ones) are also important for destroying capships, even in WC2.
 
I found your claims of not being able to put afterburners on a bomber ridiculous, if your are in a war situation and need a tactical edge, you build it, if that means putting a rocket booster (like on a WCP wasp) on your spaceframe you'd do it, if the frame could not handle the pressure, you'd come up with something else.

-On a sidenote, while there have been many mentions of the different look of the movie rapier fighter, i never read anything about the different look of the broadsword in the movie- ;)
 
Well, i've always liked the Longbow: It's pretty sturdy for the most part, it carries a pretty hefty amount of missles around, and its gun arcs are reasonable effective. Cross this afterburners and i'd say it's a rather effective bomber for the task. Yeah, it doesn't have the back up turrets of a Broadsword, nor is it quite as sturdy (IIRC), but i've always preferred the Longbow's afterburner and the larger missle factor anyway.
 
Mace said:
I found your claims of not being able to put afterburners on a bomber ridiculous, if your are in a war situation and need a tactical edge, you build it, if that means putting a rocket booster (like on a WCP wasp) on your spaceframe you'd do it, if the frame could not handle the pressure, you'd come up with something else.

-On a sidenote, while there have been many mentions of the different look of the movie rapier fighter, i never read anything about the different look of the broadsword in the movie- ;)
Click to expand...

Bombers shouldn't need them is the point I'm making. The Broadsword doesn't. Its loaded with enough turrets to to just sail through an enemy line without worrying about it. Plus it was more of a thrill ride.

The longbows afterburners were too slow to make much of a difference against fighters and all and all it was a weak assed ship.
 
Did confed fighter turrets in WC3 ever hurt anything at all? They never seemed very useful.
 
I disagree with the sentiment that capship combat was at its best in WC2. I think that Origin's INTENT was best in WC2, but the execution always seemd to fall short of the mark. I love the idea of trying to re-create WWII era torpedo runs, where big, slow, turreted ships slowly make their way into range of a lumbering capship, relying on their turrets and escorts to keep the fighters off, and then release the torp and get the hell out of Dodge. However, I think in all the times I played through WC2, things actually worked this way maybe once.

1) Despite having three turrets and lots of armor, the Broadsword's defenses never seemed adequate to protect it from more than about one or two fighters while on a torpedo run. If there were more than that attacking you (either because you had not fighter support, no wingmen, didn't take out enough fighters before starting your run, or all of the above), you were pretty much toast. Maybe I was just not good enough with a turret...but when there's only one of me, three turrets, and fighters attacking from all six sides, that seems like pretty long odds. I know the turrets would fire themselves, but the guys in those turrets must have sucked, too, because they never hit anything.

2). I generally didn't even dare man the turrets on a torp run because then you had to rely on the auto-launch of the torpedo once it got its lock. The capships in WC2 were way too good at shooting down torpedoes with their flak cannons...in general, you had to get within about 1500 klicks or so before you launched, or your torpedo would be shot down. The autolaunch would launch too early about 8 times out of 10, and too late (and hence never launch at all, because I would be dead) the ninth time. Probably there was a way to time the run a little better, but I had real troubles, especially when the capship was moving.

3). Once I got to Special Ops, the Capships suddenly seemed to figure out how to actually aim their AM guns at fighters. If you tried a "traditional" torpedo run under these conditions, manning the turrets while your fighter flies straight, boom. Hello mister big-blob-thats-not-a-neutron-gun. The only way I found to negotiate them was to stay out of range until the torps got a lock and then afterburner in to close range before the AM guns could fire, or to continuously make gradual course changes to throw off their aim without losing torp lock...which precluded using the turrets.

As a result, in the Broadword and Crossbow and Sabre strike missions in WC2, I would invariably have to kill off all, or nearly, all, of the fighters before even thinking about capships, then go on a torpedo run while not worrying about turrets, manually avoiding AM gun fire, and manually taking the torp into close range before launching. It made things a little tedius and got rid of the exciting quick capship strike that was possible in WC1 and WC3 (I loved the missions where a capship was swarming with escorts, but you could bait them away and then quickly drive in and smoke the capship while they were confused).

Personally, I liked the capship model of WC3/4 the best...having to maneuver around laser and AM gun fire to try to get inside the capship, or at least into its vulnerable spot, and then firing as long as you could until fighters drove you out...
 
Farbourne said:
As a result, in the Broadword and Crossbow and Sabre strike missions in WC2, I would invariably have to kill off all, or nearly, all, of the fighters before even thinking about capships, then go on a torpedo run while not worrying about turrets, manually avoiding AM gun fire, and manually taking the torp into close range before launching. It made things a little tedius and got rid of the exciting quick capship strike that was possible).
Click to expand...

Isnt that what you are supposed to do anyway? I mean come on, you don't launch a strike on a capital ship with bogeys still around. 2 the tediousness is what made it exciting!
 
frostytheplebe said:
Bombers shouldn't need them is the point I'm making. The Broadsword doesn't. Its loaded with enough turrets to to just sail through an enemy line without worrying about it. Plus it was more of a thrill ride.
Click to expand...

frostytheplebe said:
Isnt that what you are supposed to do anyway? I mean come on, you don't launch a strike on a capital ship with bogeys still around.
Click to expand...

Come up with an idea and stick to it. Seems like you're kind of bouncing around the thread without much thought behind it.

frostytheplebe said:
2 the tediousness is what made it exciting!
Click to expand...
 
I didn't mind it much in WC3, I flew it a couple of times, but I always took a Thud up if there was going to be a Capital ship. Now for WC4, I hated it and loved it, if that makes any sense. It wasn't maneuverable, and I felt like I had to worry about even Banshees, but it also had enough missiles to pummel anything into dust. It's guns and lack of maneuverability seemed not too big of an issue if all you needed to do was snap off an IFF or two.
 
Farbourne said:
1) Despite having three turrets and lots of armor, the Broadsword's defenses never seemed adequate to protect it from more than about one or two fighters while on a torpedo run. If there were more than that attacking you (either because you had not fighter support, no wingmen, didn't take out enough fighters before starting your run, or all of the above), you were pretty much toast. Maybe I was just not good enough with a turret...but when there's only one of me, three turrets, and fighters attacking from all six sides, that seems like pretty long odds. I know the turrets would fire themselves, but the guys in those turrets must have sucked, too, because they never hit anything.
Click to expand...

There's a reason the book tells you to clear out the escorts first.

I never found the torpedo runs tedious in WC2 but there was usually something else added to the runs that may have changed that. Plotting my vector to tractor in a wingman on the way out, luring that damned Ralatha to miss with it's AMGs so I can get a clear run in, etc.
 
ChrisReid said:
Come up with an idea and stick to it. Seems like you're kind of bouncing around the thread without much thought behind it.
Click to expand...

Fair enough, I'll stick with the initial statement, and don't you get counted for the kills the turrets get?

Seriously, I loved getting swarmed by the by the little light fighters, they couldn't do crap!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top