List of planets 'killed' universally.

Well, you know... Wing Commander, through its gameplay, often creates the impression that planets are small objects that are easy to guard. I mean, it's just one navpoint, right? :) Let's consider, though, the planetary missions of WC3, how huge the surface is compared to your fighter, and imagine the implications - how many ships would it take to guard a planet and make sure no one ever leaves it? For this reason, the safest way of quarantining an entire system is to blockade the jump points.
QFT!
I am pretty sure there were lots of Locanda citizens that tried to escape, convinced they weren't hit (because they showed no symptoms yet) but doomed to die if they stayed. Confederation cannot guarantee that they did not leave the planet, but controlling jump points is relatively easy compared to that. A planet is huge, a jump point isn't.
 
So we do have a credible self defense rationale for the nuking of Kilrah. The part with Angel is important because we identify with Blair and that should make us care on a more personal level.

THe game spends /so much time/ trying to convince you that this isn't the case, though. They're asking the player to explain to Rollins (and others) that the doom-and-gloom news about the war is par for the course and not really indicative of any particular change right now.

The WWII metaphor departs somewhat from the pacific to Europe here, at least in the sense that the side that was about to be defeated in a conventional way ends up avoiding defeat with the use of superweapons, which was what Germany was going for in the end.

I'm... pretty sure the T-Bomb is meant as a much, much more obvious reference to the Pacific theater. (Also, German superweapons are one of those things the internet gets way too excited about. There was never any point in time where the Germans were remotely close to developing a weapon capable of turning the tide of that war.)

There's one important distinction, although I'm not sure it's absolutely established as fact. I had always believed that the Temblor bomb was *only* usable against tectonically unstable planets, and that that represented a fairly small percentage of inhabited planets (including Kilrah), and also that using it required pretty extensive surveying and precise targeting. Whereas the Behemoth could destroy any planet. That's an important distinction--both were weapons of mass destruction, but one could only be used in very limited circumstances.

The Heart of the Tiger novelization suggests that the Behemoth needs an unstable world (or at least works best with them.) Interestingly, False Colors suggests that the limitation fo the T-Bomb is unknown to the general population after the war... with a Kilrathi warlord worrying that the Confederation could deploy them in greater numbers against him.

To my knowledge, Confed had no such weapons mentioned until the Behemoth and Temblor bomb come along. Humanity had finally descended to the brutality of its enemy (very Nietzsche-ish). And the fallout of this was that in WC4, Tolwyn wanted to continue it with the Gen-Select technology.

While we don't know the specifics behind the number (I have long suspected that there may have been a mass suicide included,) there were almost four times as many Kilrathi killed during the war than there were humans. Which at least implies that there was a lot of planetary bombardment going on...

One thing to note is that Chris Roberts' original plan for Wing Commander was that you were flying for a morally grey "Terran Empire" and that the enemy (not yet space cats) weren't necessarily /bad/. That was toned down for the original game, and I suspect he was starting to reach back at that idea in Wing Commander 3 and especially Wing Commander 4.


I am pretty sure there were lots of Locanda citizens that tried to escape, convinced they weren't hit (because they showed no symptoms yet) but doomed to die if they stayed. Confederation cannot guarantee that they did not leave the planet, but controlling jump points is relatively easy compared to that. A planet is huge, a jump point isn't.

Almost certainly; it's only human nature. The Heart of the Tiger novelization doesn't go into much detail, but the The Price of Freedom book spends some time talking about the terrible task of having to shoot down shuttles of refugees at Telamon to keep the plague from spreading.
 
Almost certainly; it's only human nature. The Heart of the Tiger novelization doesn't go into much detail, but the The Price of Freedom book spends some time talking about the terrible task of having to shoot down shuttles of refugees at Telamon to keep the plague from spreading.

For that matter, did anyone else think it rather cavalier of Blair and Decker to just return to the Intrepid after visiting Telamon? Even if they were "genetically acceptable" (as they obviously were, or they would be dead...Sosa certainly implies such), how do they know that they weren't carriers? It's lucky for them (and the crew of the Intrepid) that GenSelect doesn't stay in one's body more than a matter of minutes, or possibly hours.

Or was there a significant quarantine period, or study of the plague, that assured them they were safe, but that just didn't happen to be mentioned in the game?

For that matter, why *wasn't* GenSelect engineered to stay in one's system, so that even an "acceptable" person would be a carrier? It seems that Tolwyn and company wanted it to be as contagious and spreadable as possible, to "purify" all of humanity. I imagine that if you can engineer a nanobot to enter a person's body, look at their genetic code, and then optionally shut down all their cells, getting said nanobot to hang around in that body for a few days (or years) shouldn't be too difficult.
 
While we don't know the specifics behind the number (I have long suspected that there may have been a mass suicide included,) there were almost four times as many Kilrathi killed during the war than there were humans. Which at least implies that there was a lot of planetary bombardment going on...
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Planetary bombardment comes in two flavors. The first kind is the kind meant to destroy buildings and populations without leaving lingering effects (or at least such lingering effects are a not-really-desired side effect). Both sides engaged in this. The second kind is the kind meant to poison the land so that it can not be re-occupied any time soon. The Kilrathi engaged in this with the Strontium warheads and bioweapons.
 
Or was there a significant quarantine period, or study of the plague, that assured them they were safe, but that just didn't happen to be mentioned in the game?

Just be glad we missed the scene where Blair and Dekker rub decontaminating gel on each other for some reason :D

Actually the book doesn't have them landing at all which is an improvement.
 
Just be glad we missed the scene where Blair and Dekker rub decontaminating gel on each other for some reason :D
I may have instantly joined the Cult Of Sivar and started a blood feud if they had done that.
Although.. Wing Commander has always been avant-garde, some some people would have liked it. Maybe. I dunno. :D
 
I'm... pretty sure the T-Bomb is meant as a much, much more obvious reference to the Pacific theater. (Also, German superweapons are one of those things the internet gets way too excited about. There was never any point in time where the Germans were remotely close to developing a weapon capable of turning the tide of that war.)

Yes I agree, of course, it's all built to replicate the Pacific Theater, and the ceremony of the signing of the Kilrathi surrender is very, very evocative of the historical event of the Japanese Empire’s surrender.

What it seems to me is that, on a very smaller – and perhaps more generic way, Confed's overall position appears closer to Germany at least in the sense that it was about to be overran in a very conventional way by an enemy it had little or no hope of defeating conventionally. I vaguely remember reading a reference to this to which I agreed, and found it here: https://www.wcnews.com/holovids/wing3_proxima.shtml

The Heart of the Tiger novelization suggests that the Behemoth needs an unstable world (or at least works best with them.) Interestingly, False Colors suggests that the limitation fo the T-Bomb is unknown to the general population after the war... with a Kilrathi warlord worrying that the Confederation could deploy them in greater numbers against him.

Well and I always had the impression that even if the T-Bomb wouldn’t break a planet apart, it could still cause major damage, since in theory most earth-like planets probably have some level of tectonic vulnerability.

One thing to note is that Chris Roberts' original plan for Wing Commander was that you were flying for a morally grey "Terran Empire" and that the enemy (not yet space cats) weren't necessarily /bad/. That was toned down for the original game, and I suspect he was starting to reach back at that idea in Wing Commander 3 and especially Wing Commander 4.

I think we can also find a small hint of this on the WC2 SO with the TCS Gettysburg’s commander ordering the pilots to fire upon unarmed transports and the subsequent mutiny.
 
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For that matter, why *wasn't* GenSelect engineered to stay in one's system, so that even an "acceptable" person would be a carrier? It seems that Tolwyn and company wanted it to be as contagious and spreadable as possible, to "purify" all of humanity. I imagine that if you can engineer a nanobot to enter a person's body, look at their genetic code, and then optionally shut down all their cells, getting said nanobot to hang around in that body for a few days (or years) shouldn't be too difficult.

It makes sense in that they want GenSelect to spread, kill people and then go away. If it won't live in unacceptable hosts, then there's much less of a chance that sometime down the track it decides that Seether's genes are suddenly quite tasty and wipes out the "pure".
 
Well and I always had the impression that even if the T-Bomb wouldn’t break a planet apart, it could still cause major damage, since in theory most earth-like planets probably have some level of tectonic vulnerability.
Technically, even in the case of Kilrah, the T-Bomb doesn't quite break a planet apart - after the big explosion in WC3, we revisit Kilrah in WCP only to find that the planet is still there, it's just entirely unihabitable and missing a big chunk of the crust & mantle. I guess we can safely assume that for less unstable planets, the T-Bomb would still at least trigger a huge earthquake - however, the major difference between the Behemoth and the T-Bomb is that while both require an unstable planet, the T-Bomb additionally requires very precise aiming. It had to be dropped into that rift, and we must assume that it wouldn't do much otherwise. So, on any planet, it would be the same story - you need a deep rift to get any results.
 
Well and I always had the impression that even if the T-Bomb wouldn’t break a planet apart, it could still cause major damage, since in theory most earth-like planets probably have some level of tectonic vulnerability.

Apart from the fact that a tectonic weapon could only damage the outer crust of a planet and that it is impossible to let a planet explode that way (maybe it _could_ work on a moon like ours though, I'm not sure.) I think it an interesting question, also with different versions of the story in different games:

A weapons that somehow uses tectonic vulnerabilities (basically it is a weapon that causes earthquakes, I dunno how but that's Dr. Severin's job) to attack a planet would do major damage to at least a continent.
Imagine someone drops a Temblor bomb into the San Andreas Fault in a time where there is big tension there, using a resonance frequency <technobabble>. They could trigger an earth quake that the people in California and the whole pacific area certainly wouldn't like (clue Tsunamis). Same goes for the people in Japan when someone drops a Temblor bomb into the Japan Trench.

Kilrah is tectonically unstable. That means it is less stable than Earth I presume. On Earth you would just destroy a part of a continent and cause some more destruction on the surface of the planet elsewhere, by Tsunamis and stuff. It is still a weapon of mass destruction but it has only a local effect on the one or two tectonic plates that are involved there. On Kilrah the tectonical structure was far more complex. It had many tectonic plates that shifted along all the time, building up tension everywhere. Also Kilrah had no oceans it seems, which is part of the problem. Those huge bodies of water absorb some of the shock (Tsunamis are not fun as we all know, but they don't do much damage - geologically speaking) and oceans normally have much thinner crust under them (10-15km compared to the 30-70km under a continent) that breaks more easily, allowing the whole system to get rid of some tension more often. Everyone knows that shock waves travel faster in solid materials than in liquids or gases (something the WTC truthers should read about, it explains some stuff they don't get even after more than ten years). So yeah, I can imagine why a planet like Kilrah would suffer more from a Temblor bomb attack.

Back to the games: I found it very interesting (and cool, and fitting to the "realistic" style I like in SciFi) that when we saw Kilrah in WCP it was not completely blown apart but it looked like this:
https://cdn.wcnews.com/newestshots/full/kilrah.gif
I like that roughly a thousand times better than what we see in WC3 (huge explosion, nothing remains. boring IMO)
Some remarks to that:
- Why is it still hot in the 2680s? Well, that's because there is nobody to cool it down. Space is a rather cool insulation since there is nothing (except your own radiation) to carry your heat away.
- Why does it still look like it is exploding? Big things are known to happen slow (except supernovae, those aren't). The Temblor bomb may have shaken the planet apart but I can't imagine how the planet could have exploded, since tectonics only happen in the crust, that is (even if you assume that Kilrah had a much thicker crust than Earth) just a small part of the planet is crust and thus likely to be influenced by tectonics. (to put it into perspective: Earth has a radius of 6371km, the crust is thickest under the big mountain ranges and it is nowhere thicker than 100km, normally it is just between 10km and 70km thick) So what we see is actually more than I would have expected. There must have been an explosion (we know that because we have seen it in WC3) that really spat parts of the planet into orbit.
- We see a ring of asteroids around the equator area. So we know the explosion was years ago, since it takes some time to form such rings. So that also fits nicely (I want to remind you that this is SciFi. In reality such things take hundreds or thousands of years to happen). We also know that Kilrah is still spinning, otherwise a ring like that would not be possible.
- What is with the stuff that looks like solar prominences? Cool thing! It tells us something about Kilrah's core.
Kilrah must have a rather big iron core with a strong magnetic field, and also quite a lot of iron in its mantle and crust material. What we see are parts of the planet that were blown away and are now returning to it, attracted by the core's gravity. They follow magnetic lines of force. They were blown away pretty fast which is the reason why some of them stayed in a kind of orbit for a while before finally the gravitation pulls them back in. It will still take some years for all of them to return. And when they finally hit Kilrah they will splash other parts up into space. That may happen a few times (actually what we see in the picture might already be the second or third time). Also Kilrah is constantly hit by bigger solid parts that were previously blown away.


I hate that the confeds did that to the Kilrathi. I can fully understand Melek: "In my bones I wish to kill you". Losing a war is hard. Losing it like that is... worse. Much worse.
Imagine a Kilrathi that lost everything his life was based on that day: His family, his clan, his Emperor, his home, his religion's places of worship and all hope that they may ever return. And he will always see it. There is no "cleaning up the rubble" like it happened in Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Coventry, Dresden, or Guernica. The remains of Kilrah will stay right in the middle of Kilrathi space for thousands of years to come, reminding the Kilrathi that they were utterly and completely defeated.

Ahhh... I think I got carried away there. a bit. again.
 
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I hate that the confeds did that to the Kilrathi. I can fully understand Melek: "In my bones I wish to kill you". Losing a war is hard. Losing it like that is... worse. Much worse.
Imagine a Kilrathi that lost everything his life was based on that day: His family, his clan, his Emperor, his home, his religion's places of worship and all hope that they may ever return. And he will always see it. There is no "cleaning up the rubble" like it happened in Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Coventry, Dresden, or Guernica. The remains of Kilrah will stay right in the middle of Kilrathi space for thousands of years to come, reminding the Kilrathi that they were utterly and completely defeated.

Ahhh... I think I got carried away there. a bit. again.

All this talk about the morality of what Confed did is downright fascinating.

One of the things we do need to keep in mind though is that the Kilrathi do not co-exist (the way they were before Kilrah was destroyed). Their whole mission was to destroy and enslave the Confederation.

How do you win against an enemy that will not stop until walking over your bones? You either annihilate them completely first, or trigger some kind of change of policy (destabilizing the government or religion for example). I don't know if Confed is aware of the opposition to the Emperor and the question becomes if they had somehow managed to arrange for the Emperor to be killed (along with Thrakath) would that just have united all of the Clans together in hatred for such an act?

In addition, the deception of the false armistice would have made any kind of peace settlement afterwards without huge assurances (i.e. the Kilrathi CLEARLY defeated) utterly impossible, as there would always be the thought that they were working on something else there if they were still intact.

Confed was against the wall and there was no other way out for them, at least that's how I have always looked at it. This war was only going to come to an end with the destruction of either homeworld.

Finally, Aginor I know that you sympathize with the Kilrathi in a lot of areas, but for Kilrah being destroyed and sitting there utterly destroyed, the Confederation has the reminders of Goddard, Warsaw, Sirius Prime, Gilead, about 10 other strontium-bombed worlds and Locanda IV (at the very least) to remind them. You could argue that these aren't the same, as they aren't the spiritual centre of the Confed, but for many people (Not least of which was Jazz) they were their whole worlds and their personal spritual centre.
 
That's correct. It seemed like the only viable solution, and they did it because they had no choice.
And yes, the Kilrathi did (almost) the same thing to various planets.

That still doesn't make it ethically right. In bombing Kilrah the confederation has lost one of the things that made them better than the Kilrathi.

And despite having a thing for the Kilrathi of course I am still a Terran myself, and the survival of the human species is worth more than the cultural and religious feelings of the Kilrathi. Had the Kilrathi won, the humans would have been wiped out. The Kilrathi were never in danger of dying out as a race. So all in all the Kilrathi were still lucky.
It is just that as somebody who cherishes culture and history (you know, those people who start crying when a 800 year old library full of handwritten books burns down. We have such old things here in Europe) the loss of Kilrah hurts. It was not only a colony, but the very beginnings of the Kilrathi lay there. They lost their history that day.
 
Back to the games: I found it very interesting (and cool, and fitting to the "realistic" style I like in SciFi) that when we saw Kilrah in WCP it was not completely blown apart but it looked like this:
https://cdn.wcnews.com/newestshots/full/kilrah.gif
I like that roughly a thousand times better than what we see in WC3 (huge explosion, nothing remains. boring IMO)
What it seems, IMO, is that Kilrah got its crust blown completely off, but the core/mantle mostly remained. That requires maybe 100 times less energy than actually disintegrating the whole thing. Then again, physically demolishing a planet isn't really necessary as long as all life and artificial objects are annihilated and there's no chance of re-colonizing it without a full terraforming-from-scratch effort.
 
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There is no "cleaning up the rubble" like it happened in Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Coventry, Dresden, or Guernica. The remains of Kilrah will stay right in the middle of Kilrathi space for thousands of years to come, reminding the Kilrathi that they were utterly and completely defeated.

The classifieds section of Star*Soldier suggests the Kilrathi are trying to rebuild Kilrah.


Glory to Kilrah! Planetary reconstruction
project seeks human
engineers, supervisors. Help
put the pieces back together.
 
Is technology in the WC universe that far developed? I didn't have the impression until now, based on what I know from the existing sources.
What do we know about terraforming in WC anyway? I think I remember something from Privateer but I'm not sure.
 
In Privateer 2 extensive terraforming is known and has a history of at least several decades. The planet Karatikus is described as the first (partly failed) attempt at using a certain technique and it's at least implied there are more planets made habitable. But that's the Tri-System.

A short ad about "planetary reconstruction" can mean a number of things. Maybe it's just a weird group of fanatics with unrealistic goals...
 
I believe it was a nod to the plot for Privateer 3 which involved the Kilrathi pushing a Steltek artifact that would let them rebuild Kilrah.
 
I had interpreted it as "rebuilding the cities/culture of Kilrah on a new planet to resemble the old as much as possible", not "restoring the original planet itself".
 
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