Kilrathi vs.Nephilim

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The thing is, we really do not know enough about the Nephillim to say either way who would win. Sure you can argue that they must have a huge fleet because their scout fleet was so big, but I remember devestating a massive Kilrathi fleet around Firekka. And that wasnt the whole Kilrathi fleet, that was all the ships they could spare and not loose any ground to Confed while they were having their little ceremony.
 
Everyone keeps talking about the AI, yeah it sucked in WCP, but you can't say "Well if the AI was better they'd be harder". It didn't happen that way. Maybe the bug pilots are just poorly trained. Maybe they don't bother training their pilots very much because they simply have the huge numbers to overwhelm anyone, rather than waste time and resources in training. As long they know how to fly and how to shoot, that's good enough.
 
The Kilrathi were tougher to beat than the Nephilim.
Here are my reasons:

1) Against the Kilrathi you typically had just 1 wingman. Against the Nephilim you have several.
2) Nephilim armaments aren't as powerful as the Kilrathi comparatively. Sure the odd bug fighter has the heavy plasma or heavy gorgon, but almost every kat fighter sports enough guns to ruin your day. Meanwhile the bulk of the bug fighters are left with puny masers/quantum disruptors.
3) Damage repair systems seem more effective in 2681. Back in the day, 1 or 2 hits could smash your guns, blow off missiles, shatter your radar or reduce total shield or engine output. In the WC3 era onwards any sustained damage rarely had such negative and permanent results.
4) The Nephilim aren't as aggressive as the Kilrathi. How many times have you flown against Squids, Skates and Stingrays and watched them run away? Do the Drakhai run away?
5) Comparatively speaking Confed fighters are on whole better than their Nephilim equivalents. In WC1/2 the Kilrathi fighters either equalled or surpassed their Confed rivals.

My 2 cents...
 
The Kilrathi were harder to fight than the Nephilim , but as $tormin said , it was a scouting force . Who knows what sort of tecnology they have on the other side of the gate.

Actually i was a bit dissapointed with the Nephilim because I thought they were a bit too similar to the Kilrathi. They both had that " death before dishonour " mentality. I dont really mind , but they felt like the Kilrathi with different skin.

I die with honour!! - Bug about to be toasted.
 
Originally posted by Earthworm
Most of their capships are pretty good, the Manta is better than a lot of the fighters we see in SO, the Squid would be a very effective fighter if the dumb AI knew how to use it effectivly. Same goes for the clustered ships.
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The Nephilim destroyer and carrier are dangerous, due to their ability to lay down a heavy AA barrage but I found the corvettes, cruiser, transports, shipkiller and dreadnought to be rather ridiculous (against fighters).

The Manta may be better than some fighters we see in SOPS (e.g. Thunderbolt) but is definitely weaker than the fighters we fly and the Squid is maybe annoying to kill but it is clearly inferior to the Wasp, IMHO, and both serve the same purpose.

As for clustered ships: Clustered Stingrays can be dangerous granted but the Skate clusters? With a top speed of 350 kps and no AB?
 
yea the Bugs kinda sucked the kats were hard as hell. I must state that the bugs do not have that 22km long dreadnought OR multiple good anticapship cannons on their ships. they had only maser turrets. No AM cannons, no heavy ions, nothing. yea sure they had shipkillers on 2 classes of ships but that is it
 
Why does anyone think the Nephilim capships are good when they have no cover fire for their rear quadrant? This deficiency is immediately noticeable because you have to destroy a ship's engine/s to kill it. Its stuff like this that cause the Nephilim to amount to less than the Kilrathi.
 
Then there's the problem... You have to get to the rear, but that doesn't seem hard to do either.
 
Meson: It's ridiculously easy to do.

Bob McDob: If you're referring to the Barracuda, getting and staying behind that thing is something any plebe should be able to manage, without significant difficulty. As for the kat corvette - well what can I say? It hasn't got any notable weaknesses.

[Edited by Penguin on 07-18-2001 at 04:59]
 
If you give thought to the psychology of how the Kilrathi and Nephilim fight you would understand some key differences.

Kilrathi act basically like a pack, much like us Terrans would. We tend to be more aggressive as we are individual. Sure we have some that regard death more glorious than defeat (many, if not most, Kilrathi) however both species would rather come home and fight another day. There is incentive for them to be aggressive.

The Nephilim however are insectoid. They have a hive mind. They can throw millions of beings at an enemy and they could all be suicidal. The individual matters not, its the hive that must survive. They were easy to defeat because there was no incentive to be aggressive. They can win on basis of shear numbers! (Just think about the insect to human ratio right now!)
 
Redwolf, do we actually know that the Nep have a hive society comparable with ants, termites, wasps or similar insects? Excuse me if I'm being ignorant here, must play SO at some point;)

I think you've totally summed the situation up though. The Nep like the multitude of insects that attack a stronger animal and although many are defeated, they eventually bring their victim down.
 
Originally posted by Penguin
If you're referring to the Barracuda, getting and staying behind that thing is something any plebe should be able to manage, without significant difficulty. As for the kat corvette - well what can I say? It hasn't got any notable weaknesses.
Click to expand...

I didn't say that it was hard, just that it could be...;) I mean, getting behind a destroyer is practically nothing, so a 'Cuda is the only challange whatsoever...not that it's nessesarily a big one...
 
redwolf: If the bugs have a hive mind and sheer numbers then shouldn't they be more aggressive than us? After all the individual matters not - therefore the bugs should be tearing into us, giving us all they got. Furthermore, if the bugs are thoughtless drones dedicated only to victory than how come there aren't any kamikaze bugs? How come the bugs don't load their fighters with nukes and self detonate when enemy fighters approach within range? Why do they even bother building different types of fighters?

-=Wolf=-: Judging by the kill scores Confed was already seriously outnumbered before the Dekker mentions the massive fleet on the other side.

Dak: We don't know anything about Nephilim society. As for your analogy look at it this way. Confed is the ant-eater, the bugs are the ants. I don't know about you, but I plan on doing all the eating [insert maniacal laughter]. :D

Bob McDob: When I first saw the Barracuda I thought "oversized chocolate fish. Mmmmm." :D

[Edited by Penguin on 07-18-2001 at 21:23]
 
That's why I replaced it with a Shadow Battlecrab. Even with that laser, it still seems ineffective...don't know why...I have noticed that one time I replaced the Kilrathi Corvette with a Whitestar, and the thing just rotated without firing! Must be the "Corvette" AI...

Another thing...WC1 Dralthis seem more effective than Darkets. Don't know why. (shrug)
 
Originally posted by Penguin
Why does anyone think the Nephilim capships are good when they have no cover fire for their rear quadrant? This deficiency is immediately noticeable because you have to destroy a ship's engine/s to kill it. Its stuff like this that cause the Nephilim to amount to less than the Kilrathi.
Click to expand...

Well, You can enter into the hangar of any Kilrathi carrier and destroy it from within !!!
And some Kilrathi CapShips doesn´t fire when you are in her rear !! (at least in WC III )
 
To break up this arguement, Milk and Cheese:

merv.gif


Thank you.
 
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