Kilrathi Resistance Movement

frostytheplebe

frostytheplebe

Seventh Part of the Seal
This is a two part question:

1. In Ghorah Khar system, as well as several outlying Kilrathi Frontier colonies, we see the Kilrathi inhabitants rising up against the Empire. I was just wondering what their strength was? Did they actually have any type of fleet? Perhaps like a scratch defense force of modified civilian craft, or perhaps a couple of cruisers and destroyers? I can believe that they didn't have any carriers or battlewagons, but you never know.

2. If they did have any type of fighting force, did any of them respond during the Battle of Terra and send any ships to support the Confed Fleet? Perhaps under Hobbes' guidance?
 
Assuming that the Kilrathi rebellion did have a small fleet in the Ghorah Khar system, wouldn't it seem unlikely that they'd set course for Terra given the number of jumps they'd have to make to cover the distance to Sol? I'd have thought by the time they arrived, such a relatively insignifcant force wouldn't offer much in the way of assistance.

Just trying to work out the distance now, can't find Ghorah Khar on the map....
 
All we know about the strength of the rebels' fleet is that they had at least one Ralatha-class destroyer (the Sh'ar N'Tanya - we meet them in SO1). Mind you, this was not at Ghorah Khar - the Ralatha came from N'Tanya, one of the other rebel planets that revolted during SO1. There is a space station of unknown type above N'Tanya (which presumably must be a Kilrathi station, since it's impossible for Confed to have already placed a new station there).

Apart from that, the people defending Ghorah Khar, both in WC2 and in SO1, are humans. There is a Confed space station above Ghorah Khar, and a base on the planet surface. However odd it may seem, we don't encounter any Kilrathi pilots (apart from Hobbes, of course) fighting for the Confederation. Even the Sh'ar N'Tanya, as I recall, had a human comm officer, though the captain was a Kilrathi. We also do not know if the Sh'ar N'Tanya was a Confed vessel, or if the rebel forces were considered separate.

Anyway - that about sums up what we know. It may be that there were Kilrathi rebels serving in the Confed Navy (either individuals, or whole rebel ships), and it's equally possible that the rebels might have been organised as a separate force. We just don't know. It's even possible that there were no rebels around by the time of the Battle of Terra - after all, they're all marked as Kilrathi systems on the WCP map, so either they voluntarily returned to the Kilrathi after the war, or they were recaptured at some point after SO1.
 
Quarto said:
Anyway - that about sums up what we know. It may be that there were Kilrathi rebels serving in the Confed Navy (either individuals, or whole rebel ships), and it's equally possible that the rebels might have been organised as a separate force. We just don't know. It's even possible that there were no rebels around by the time of the Battle of Terra - after all, they're all marked as Kilrathi systems on the WCP map, so either they voluntarily returned to the Kilrathi after the war, or they were recaptured at some point after SO1.
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That would have been pretty cool to see. Kilrathi serving in Confed as something other than sleeper spies... I would wonder though if they would stay with Confed even after their planets fell.
 
Well, they certainly wouldn't return to the Empire. On the other hand, I suppose at least some would commit suicide. One of the things mentioned in the WC Bible and later confirmed in the Arena manual was that an "overwhelming majority" of the Kilrathi killed themselves (though it seems this wasn't because of the defeat as such - it was triggered by the assassination of the "main Kilrathi spokesperson", M'ragrakath). And of course, Kirha also killed himself when he found out Hunter was dead. The rebel Kilrathi might not necessarily follow this example, though - their treason was already a rejection of the Kilrathi code of honour, after all.

(of course, that raises another question - how many of the rebels actually made the conscious decision to rebel against the Emperor, and how many others were more like Kirha, disagreeing about the rebellion, but staying faithful to their immediate liege-lords, who did rebel?)
 
Quarto said:
(of course, that raises another question - how many of the rebels actually made the conscious decision to rebel against the Emperor, and how many others were more like Kirha, disagreeing about the rebellion, but staying faithful to their immediate liege-lords, who did rebel?)
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Thats a good point... a very good point. I think in the KS manual Hunter actually talks about one of them becoming like a servant to him or something. It was... to put it softly, less than ideal for both of them?

But also, what would the imperials say about this, say when they recaptured these planets and executed the liege lords, how would they have dealt with the underlings who may have just been following orders?
 
frostytheplebe said:
Thats a good point... a very good point. I think in the KS manual Hunter actually talks about one of them becoming like a servant to him or something. It was... to put it softly, less than ideal for both of them?
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Freedom Flight elaborates further on this. Excellent novel, if you ever find a copy.
 
frostytheplebe said:
But also, what would the imperials say about this, say when they recaptured these planets and executed the liege lords, how would they have dealt with the underlings who may have just been following orders?
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How do you figure that would work? You don't really think any of the rebel Kilrathi would survive the Empire's counterattack, do you?
 
Quarto said:
How do you figure that would work? You don't really think any of the rebel Kilrathi would survive the Empire's counterattack, do you?
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... that depends to be honest. The Kilrathi from WC2 seemed to have a different mentality then they did in WC3. If we're talking about how they were in WC2 when their mentality was similar to the Klingon sense of honor, i'd say maybe... MAYBE!

If we're talking about the way they were in WC3 who were hell bent on Gennocide? Then probably not.
 
Hmm. I don't think you're right, but for sake of argument - care to elaborate that? What is it about the WC2 Kilrathi (and remember, you must also take Freedom Flight into account, since it predates WC2) that makes you think they were different in this regard?

I think if the Kilrathi in WC2 really did have a stronger idea of honour than the WC3 Kilrathi (though I would also argue that there's nothing in WC3 that substantially alters what we know about the Kilrathi from WC2 - it's just that different aspects of their personality are emphasized), then that would be all the worse for the rebels. I can imagine, that if the Kilrathi were dishonourable enough, they could treat the rebels as they would humans - as a prey species that can be slaughtered or enslaved as they see fit. But if I say the rebels would all be killed, it is precisely because I think they would treat the rebels honourably.
 
Quarto said:
Hmm. I don't think you're right, but for sake of argument - care to elaborate that? What is it about the WC2 Kilrathi (and remember, you must also take Freedom Flight into account, since it predates WC2) that makes you think they were different in this regard?
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Fair enough... Well it really seems just more of attitude then anything else. I mean at what point did they go from conquering to total annihilation? Secondly, Thrakath in Wing Commander 2 left Paladin alive in SO1. Given that I started Wing Commander on # 3 this somewhat surprised me. I figured he would view Paladin as a subspecies creature not worthy of any respect or honor and just killed him on the spot rather then waste time knocking him out. I suppose its just my own feelings, but I was of the opinion that they had changed from viewing humans as worthy opponents to a lesser species to be exterminated.
 
Prince Thrakhath never had an opportunity to kill Paladin - he got out of his cell and made for the Crossbow, without trying to find Paladin (remember, Paladin was armed - the Prince only had his own claws). He did knock Hobbes out, and later presented some excuses about not killing Hobbes because they were related... but for all we know, he could have spared him because Hobbes was a sleeper agent.
 
Quarto said:
Prince Thrakhath never had an opportunity to kill Paladin - he got out of his cell and made for the Crossbow, without trying to find Paladin (remember, Paladin was armed - the Prince only had his own claws). He did knock Hobbes out, and later presented some excuses about not killing Hobbes because they were related... but for all we know, he could have spared him because Hobbes was a sleeper agent.
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Well I stand corrected there, however I do still believe that their attitude towards their enemies changed significantly from 2 to 3.
 
Hehe, this is kinda getting silly, every second post in this thread is mine :p.

Yes, you are right - their attitude did change between WC2 and WC3. One important distinction, however - it wasn't their attitude towards their enemies, it was specifically their attitude towards humans. Fleet Action explains this change - the Kilrathi had come to consider humans as more or less equal opponents... and then lost all respect for them when they fell for the false peace offer. So, it wasn't a general change in Kilrathi philosophy - it's definitely not possible to look at WC3 and say that the Kilrathi are different than they were in WC2. Of course, they really are different, because they were written by completely different writers - but we are provided with an explanation within the game universe that allows us to justify this change and to accept it as fully compatible with WC2.

Bear in mind also that this change of attitude was a change for the Kilrathi in general, and results may vary for individuals. For example, I see no change at all in the Emperor - if you try to imagine the WC3 intro taking place a day after the WC2 intro, you will find that the only change between the two is that the Emperor has gone from being a nifty hand-drawn cat to an ugly muppet. His looks change, his voice changes, but his attitude remains unchanged. Similarly, Prince Thrakhath seems to be exactly the same as well.
 
Quarto said:
Hehe, this is kinda getting silly, every second post in this thread is mine :p.

Yes, you are right - their attitude did change between WC2 and WC3. One important distinction, however - it wasn't their attitude towards their enemies, it was specifically their attitude towards humans. Fleet Action explains this change - the Kilrathi had come to consider humans as more or less equal opponents... and then lost all respect for them when they fell for the false peace offer. So, it wasn't a general change in Kilrathi philosophy - it's definitely not possible to look at WC3 and say that the Kilrathi are different than they were in WC2. Of course, they really are different, because they were written by completely different writers - but we are provided with an explanation within the game universe that allows us to justify this change and to accept it as fully compatible with WC2.

Bear in mind also that this change of attitude was a change for the Kilrathi in general, and results may vary for individuals. For example, I see no change at all in the Emperor - if you try to imagine the WC3 intro taking place a day after the WC2 intro, you will find that the only change between the two is that the Emperor has gone from being a nifty hand-drawn cat to an ugly muppet. His looks change, his voice changes, but his attitude remains unchanged. Similarly, Prince Thrakhath seems to be exactly the same as well.
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See... I thought Thrakath was the biggest change. Especially when he makes that speech to the victory. The Emperor I agree with you on.
But thanks for clarifying the rest.

PROMOTION TIME!
 
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