In WCIII, should Blair have jettisoned Cobra?

E

EmeraldaWebb

Swabbie
Banned
All Cobra ever did was display anger at others on the Victory. She was so pessimistic. I can't recall any time she was pleasant to be around. If I wanted to listen to such bad vibes, then I would've told Rollins to play violent rap music. Blair could've dropped Cobra off where he picked up Flash. Cobra's anger made her a danger to be around. I was surprised she didn't try to mutiny Blair at a point in the game & novel though she did warn him that he might be subject to "friendly fire".
 
Any subordinate that's so distrusting of humanity like the way Cobra was and then threatens a superior with mutiny doesn't deserve to be a fighter pilot. I never picked Cobra when I played; I was afraid she'd go deranged and shoot up the Victory.
 
The discussion about “Cobra’s” post traumatic stress disorder that I was now able to locate. EmeraldaWebb, I don’t theorize at all that “Cobra” would have shot at the Victory; to do so would have caused her to be shot at and/or stranded in space. I theorize she would have joined then Admiral Geoffrey Tolwyn to become the main pilot leader of the “Black Lance” since she utterly despised the Kilrathi (no racial pun intended nor no racial remark intended) and since her PTSD made her derangely angry at times. Col. Christopher "Maverick" Blair needed to have her retired to Earth.

Also, if Jonas Simbacca‘s aging gene had been discontinued, and if he had lived to lead the Victory and other Confederation spaceships towards Kilrah, then he might have jettisoned “Cobra” if she had very disdainfully and very loudly threatened to mutiny him like how she threatened Colonel Christopher Blair. Very soon after Hollis decked J.T. Marsh, Jonas Simbacca said, “If someone did that to me, they would not live to see another day.” in Exosquad Episode “Ultimate Weapon”. Jonas Simbacca spared Hollis’s life after Hollis “shot“ him in Episode “Inner Dark” , and later he had Hollis lead the Pirate Clans to setup a scientific station at World Chaos with Gulba and Thrax there in Episode “Beyond Chaos” . Barca was probably a double agent “causing” anime shown “damages” and working for Jonas Simbacca; and Barca probably very secretly told Hollis to use nonlethal laser shots to not wound, but to instead stun Jonas Simbacca, like how Thrax later used a pistol to stun Medusa in Episode Fall of the Neosapien Empire Part IV. Note: Mark Edens wrote some episodes of both Exosquad and Wing Commander Academy. That reminds me: In Episode “Fall of the Neosapien Empire Part V” when Gulba asked, “What’s Phaeton waiting for? Why doesn’t he finish it?“, then Thrax walked over to Gulba and told him, “He keeps us alive to give us time to be afraid.”. And, Gulba then told Thrax, “It would have been better if I had perished when Phaeton had destroyed the rest of the Neo Megas; at least then I would have gone with my brood.” Thrax then explained to Gulba, “I used to worry how I would face the end; would I go bravely like a soldier? But let me tell you something, Neo Mega, it’s life itself that matters, not how it ends. Every moment is a precious gift: if only we have the courage to accept it. That’s where our duty lies: not in taking life, but in living it.”. That kind of contradicts what Commodore Geoffrey Tolwyn said in Wing Commander Academy Episode “Expendable”, “A Pilot is expendable; we all are; that’s what it means to be a soldier.”. And that’s further kind of contradicted by Episode “Beyond Chaos” when Commander J.T. Marsh’s comment to Admiral Winfield, “I was never really a Military man; I just liked to fly.”, and Admiral Winfield’s acknowledgement of that comment when Admiral Winfield shook his head and his reply to Commander J.T. Marsh, “You’re the best soldier I’ve ever commanded.”
 
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Cobra as a character was an interesting premise and concept, that was so poorly executed that it landed flat. Because it was entirely predicated on Hobb's character and they also screwed that up.

Like a lot of characters in the game, plot points and interesting character traits are brought up and then never fleshed out. another prime example is rollins with all his conspiracy theories, like why was this even introduced? it amounts to absolutely nothing in the end. Like chekhov's gun, if a story beat is brought up earlier in the movie they're supposed to be a payoff.

Another example is flash, his whole story arc is taken care of in 30 minutes, "when you teach this Punk a lesson," and then if you decide to keep him, he basically just becomes another nameless faceless pilot to pick as a wingman.

Maniac is so one note that he's not even a character but a caricature.

Vaquero, was kind of just there I guess as a symbol of hopeful happier times, but they just never gave him enough to do. He was just constantly wanting to open a Cantina and leave the war behind as he strummed on his guitar.

I felt like they did a pretty decent job with vagabond at least with making him interesting, same with Blair, tolwyn and eisen.

The whole love triangle thing was also poorly done especially the ending at the bar, where you have to disrespect one of the females by kissing your new girlfriend in front of them. I think wing Commander four made the very wise decision of basically never acknowledging your choice from three.
 
Cobra as a character was an interesting premise and concept, that was so poorly executed that it landed flat. Because it was entirely predicated on Hobb's character and they also screwed that up.

Like a lot of characters in the game, plot points and interesting character traits are brought up and then never fleshed out. another prime example is rollins with all his conspiracy theories, like why was this even introduced? it amounts to absolutely nothing in the end. Like chekhov's gun, if a story beat is brought up earlier in the movie they're supposed to be a payoff.
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I can't agree here, these are both pretty carefully established to make the player choose to stick up for Hobbes. Cobra and Rollins are both entirely right from the start... but they're set up to seem unpleasant so you dismiss them immediately. It's all in the service of making the player feel genuinely betrayed when Hobbes is revealed as the traitor... you couldn't get past Cobra's (justified!) anger to take her seriously and how her death seems like your fault.

(Rollins' conspiracy stuff is a little diminished by the newsbriefs being cut since the idea was that you'd see for yourself that Confed was lying about the state of the war... but there's still a bunch of that in there, including as setup for Vagabond's little arc with Dr. Severin/Pax 7!)

Maniac is so one note that he's not even a character but a caricature.
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He's the comic relief but I'd also say he's also presented as the most "realistic" character in the bunch... fighter pilots are typically known for their brash type A personalities and so much for not sitting around having conversations with their CO about their feelings :D

The whole love triangle thing was also poorly done especially the ending at the bar, where you have to disrespect one of the females by kissing your new girlfriend in front of them. I think wing Commander four made the very wise decision of basically never acknowledging your choice from three.
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This was not so conscious a choice but the result of overages in the shoot which caused a bunch of scenes to be killed late in the process... that's also why you don't get transitions on the Intrepid, the second unit stuff that needed Hamill especially got devastated by the delays. As scripted (and boarded!) the plan was to have a message from the lady you chose in the previous game breaking up with you which would play in a scene on Blair's farm (followed by a message from Maniac asking him to come to the legally-distinct-from-the-Star-Wars cantina).
 
Bandit LOAF said:
As scripted (and boarded!) the plan was to have a message from the lady you chose in the previous game breaking up with you which would play in a scene on Blair's farm (followed by a message from Maniac asking him to come to the legally-distinct-from-the-Star-Wars cantina).
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If it knew which you chose I assume that means a pilot transfer system ala wc2? Were there any other plans for choices from 3 impacting 4?
 
Bandit LOAF said:
I can't agree here, these are both pretty carefully established to make the player choose to stick up for Hobbes. Cobra and Rollins are both entirely right from the start... but they're set up to seem unpleasant so you dismiss them immediately. It's all in the service of making the player feel genuinely betrayed when Hobbes is revealed as the traitor... you couldn't get past Cobra's (justified!) anger to take her seriously and how her death seems like your fault.

(Rollins' conspiracy stuff is a little diminished by the newsbriefs being cut since the idea was that you'd see for yourself that Confed was lying about the state of the war... but there's still a bunch of that in there, including as setup for Vagabond's little arc with Dr. Severin/Pax 7!)



He's the comic relief but I'd also say he's also presented as the most "realistic" character in the bunch... fighter pilots are typically known for their brash type A personalities and so much for not sitting around having conversations with their CO about their feelings :D



This was not so conscious a choice but the result of overages in the shoot which caused a bunch of scenes to be killed late in the process... that's also why you don't get transitions on the Intrepid, the second unit stuff that needed Hamill especially got devastated by the delays. As scripted (and boarded!) the plan was to have a message from the lady you chose in the previous game breaking up with you which would play in a scene on Blair's farm (followed by a message from Maniac asking him to come to the legally-distinct-from-the-Star-Wars cantina).
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I'll just disagree with all. Maniac is basically Biff from back to the future turned up to 12, if that's even possible, he is a caractiure, only thing that was missing was for him to call Blair butthead a 100 times. For the record I'm not asking him to be written as some complex deep character but it was so on the nose that it made me roll my eyes. for instance in Top Gun, Iceman is written to be the antagonist for 90% of the movie but you can always tell there's a bit more to him than just being a bully. In fact he is right about Maverick being unpredictable and a loose cannon. I like that the writers gave him a more fully developed character in four, nothing ground breaking, but he did seem like a real person and not pulled from the scrap heap of bullies are us lol.

Cobra is right, which undermines the story and her character because once again she's also just one note and hammers the same point on and on and on. There are so many better ways to execute her story along with Hobbs and they chose the most basic contrived way possible, with the maturian candidate angle. They could have had a complex relationship throughout the game that ended in mutual respect even if she never fully forgave his species. Instead she was woefully underwritten and stabbed to death in the story, she could have chose to sacrifice her life to save hobbs even though she didn't trust him or like him because of the actions blair and him took on missions etc... There was a thousand ways to skin the cat, "pun intended" but I hated the one they chose immensely, it is unsatisfying in every way possible to me.

Rollins is not ever really proved right or wrong because once again it starts and it kind of just peters out halfway through, as you pointed out there was supposed to be a whole lot more message and briefings to flesh out his character that just were not there. That's not the players fault, that's the Creator's fault, you can infer what you want but the actual scenes are not there.

I also stick to my guns on the love triangle, it was poorly executed, I'm glad they didn't mention it in wc4 and they didnt give blair another love interest in the game. After 2 unsatisfactory love angles with the two girls in wc3 and before that angel's anti climatic death, It was not needed remotely.
 
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Bandit LOAF said:
That tracks!

No I"m sorry I'm havng a bad day, I shouldn't be picking on you.
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I'm sorry you're having a bad day but I read media perfectly fine. wing commanders three story was not very well executed in my opinion. My gut tells me because Chris didn't care for wing commanders 2 storyline that much even though I think it was great. And the other part was going from cartoons to live actors and him trying to be a director for the first time. characters, plot points, and motivations appear and disappeared just as quick. Reverting hobbs storyline from a character with agency in 2, into being basically a robot bc of a mind wipe is lame as crap to me and felt extremely tacked on.

Tom Wilson was basically told to play Biff again in a flight suit. To see it any other way I think is asinine. The ending is literally Star Wars right down to Luke Skywalker being the pilot. Considering where they went with tolwyn it would have been better if the Behemoth plan actually went through and you could have seen. the beginning stages of him kind of losing his mind. As another poster pointed out that would have been an excellent plot point for hobbs to switch sides again because even he didn't want to see his home world destroyed, who would??

How they handled Angel was also very unsatisfying to me. Once again I have no issue with her dying but there should have been a more emotional build up and pay off. it all seemed like an afterthought to me, besides one little flashback, they didn't even have a scene together.

Off topic, I think some of the criticism of modern Star Wars is way over the top, but one thing I agree with most fans on and even hamill himself is the fact that the three main leads of the original trilogy never shared the screen once in the new trilogy, not a very smart business decision in my personal opinion. But it is what it is.

For the record I don't hate wing Commander 3, there are parts of it I enjoy and overall I still think it's a good game, but it is by far the weakest entry in the series to me and it's not even close. The things I like I've already pointed out, as far as characters go, and for the time frame and budget I thought the kilrathi Muppets looked pretty great at least the main ones not the background ones. but other aspects of the game felt flat to me. I found most of the characters completely unlikable, and the war never really felt desperate to me, and was always just little Skirmish after a little skirmish. Which I'm not even mad at the developers, I realize a lot of that is because of Technology limitations of the day, but it's one of the reasons I actually do enjoy WC Saga a bit more than wing Commander 3, it's because the battles actually felt a lot more large-scale than they did in three.
 
Jdawg said:
Off topic, I think some of the criticism of modern Star Wars is way over the top, but one thing I agree with most fans on and even hamill himself is the fact that the three main leads of the original trilogy never shared the screen once in the new trilogy, not a very smart business decision in my personal opinion. But it is what it is.
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Everyone forgets this pivotal scene!
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Jdawg said:
I actually do enjoy WC Saga a bit more than wing Commander 3, it's because the battles actually felt a lot more large-scale than they did in three.
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Not surprising!
 
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