Idea for Standoff
- Thread starter Winnyfred
- Start date
Quarto
Unknown Enemy
We can make people automatically eject, or we can leave it up to the AI. We can even automatically kill them off, if we want to. The problem is that while it would be neat to have the redshirt pilots always at risk of death, this would cause a lot of trouble for us when creating missions, because we always assign a specific pilot to a specific ship... and that doesn't work if the pilot in question is dead.
WCP had a clever system that randomly assigned wingmen from a particular squadron to a ship... but even this system wouldn't be much use to us at the moment, because we only have fifteen pilots per squadron, which means we'd still run out of pilots after an episode or two.
I'm sure people will become more killable when episode five comes around, since then we won't need to worry about future mission assignments any more
.
WCP had a clever system that randomly assigned wingmen from a particular squadron to a ship... but even this system wouldn't be much use to us at the moment, because we only have fifteen pilots per squadron, which means we'd still run out of pilots after an episode or two.
I'm sure people will become more killable when episode five comes around, since then we won't need to worry about future mission assignments any more
.Sharpshooter
Rear Admiral
We can make people automatically eject, or we can leave it up to the AI. We can even automatically kill them off, if we want to. The problem is that while it would be neat to have the redshirt pilots always at risk of death, this would cause a lot of trouble for us when creating missions, because we always assign a specific pilot to a specific ship... and that doesn't work if the pilot in question is dead.
WCP had a clever system that randomly assigned wingmen from a particular squadron to a ship... but even this system wouldn't be much use to us at the moment, because we only have fifteen pilots per squadron, which means we'd still run out of pilots after an episode or two.
I'm sure people will become more killable when episode five comes around, since then we won't need to worry about future mission assignments any more
I think some of the pilots could die in Unknown Enemy, couldn't they?
Anyway, I sure am glad that I don't have the challenge of keeping the wingmen alive. Standoff is already hard enough, in my opinion. Especially with that ship count... By the way, I think non-Firekka pilots can die (Verdun and Concordia pilots), though it doesn't really matter.
I agree that it could be a neat idea in Episode 5, but will be able to keep all of our wingmen alive if you do this? Or will it be impossible?
(Also, just wondering... Does Unknown Enemy have a ship count?)
Eder
Mr. Standoff
UE has no ship count.
As for Standoff, we can probably make people killable in Ep. 5, when we won't need to worry about using the same pilots again in future missions.
Of course, we can't let you kill the people we need for the storyline to advance (we can't be bothered making 10 different versions of each cutscene depending on who's alive and who isn't)... So, like in most WC games, if anyone from the "main crew" were to die, it'd probably be a scripted death.
As for Standoff, we can probably make people killable in Ep. 5, when we won't need to worry about using the same pilots again in future missions.
Of course, we can't let you kill the people we need for the storyline to advance (we can't be bothered making 10 different versions of each cutscene depending on who's alive and who isn't)... So, like in most WC games, if anyone from the "main crew" were to die, it'd probably be a scripted death.
Sharpshooter
Rear Admiral
Thanks, Eder!
And to think I tried as hard as I could to save as many allied ships as possible. Oh well, since I was playing on rookie, it added to the challenge, I guess.
'If anyone from the main crew were to die'... Does anyone else have a bad feeling about this?
And to think I tried as hard as I could to save as many allied ships as possible. Oh well, since I was playing on rookie, it added to the challenge, I guess.
'If anyone from the main crew were to die'... Does anyone else have a bad feeling about this?
Lt.Death100
Spaceman
Would it be possible with the engine to create a list of names for redshirt type people that you could kill off?
Quarto
Unknown Enemy
Of course it would, since what we do is specify which people are allowed to die and which aren't. It's just that in the first three or four episodes, nobody at all is permitted to die, for reasons already explained.
Nah, people only died in UE when I told them to die. Well, I don't remember for sure - it may be that they were all allowed to die in the last mission. Definitely not in the rest of the game, though.
Sure, it'll be possible... unless we decide to script someone's death
.Lt.Death100
Spaceman
What I was trying to say (but forgot to include) was is it possible to create a randomly generated list from a number of generic callsigns.
Eder
Mr. Standoff
I'm not sure what you mean.... We must specify which pilot will be flying each ship in each mission, and we must specify which pilots are allowed to die and which aren't (it's not a randomizable thing). Also, and we can't create new pilots between missions because all of the Firekka's pilots are listed on the killboard. So, we must keep our pilots survive each mission so we can assign them to the ships in the next mission.
Lt.Death100
Spaceman
What I mean is that there is a bunch of pilots on the killboard that are drawn from a larger list and are expendable and are seperate from the story characters.
Sharpshooter
Rear Admiral
Thanks for the explanation. I might have been misled by UE voiceovers... Some pilots sounded so unhappy about their ships exploding that I must have thought they were dying rather than ejecting.
Sure, it'll be possible... unless we decide to script someone's death
Now I'm going to spend the next few months wondering who might die a scripted death.
I sure am glad to hear that it'll be possible to save all of the wingmen from non-scripted deaths, though.
Quarto
Unknown Enemy
I don't think so, since they just used standard WCP voiceovers... but I suppose you might get the impression that people are dying when, after a few ejections, one of the other pilots asks "is this mission worth the price?", a line that very much suggests people are dying.
Hehe, I don't see why you'd even wonder about this, though - the very idea of a non-scripted death is that it's not scripted, and therefore doesn't have to happen. If it wasn't possible to save people from non-scripted deaths, then by definition these deaths would be scripted
.
Eder
Mr. Standoff
Well, and what we mean is that the pilots have to be *specifically* assigned to each ship. We can't tell the engine to "take these 20 guys, pick whoever among them is still alive, and assign him to this ship".
So, whenever we flag a pilot as "allowed to die", we can't *ever* assign another ship to him again... because there is the possibility that he really did die when we allowed him to, and in that case, when the next mission comes, the engine won't just look for someone else who's alive, it'll try to assign the dead guy to a ship, and that'll be trouble.
Quarto
Unknown Enemy
Actually, we can, since WCP does exactly that - it's just that I simply never bothered to figure out how this works, since we've never had enough pilots for it. It's all right when you've got as many pilots as WCP did... but in Standoff, you could potentially depopulate a squadron within a single episode.
Eder
Mr. Standoff
So, WCP can, but we can't.
Sharpshooter
Rear Admiral
Hehe, I don't see why you'd even wonder about this, though - the very idea of a non-scripted death is that it's not scripted, and therefore doesn't have to happen. If it wasn't possible to save people from non-scripted deaths, then by definition these deaths would be scripted
Little misunderstanding there
. I didn't mean 'each wingman separately', I meant 'all of the wingmen'... For example, in UE it's *technically* possible to save all of your wingmen's ships, but on most missions, it's impossible to do this without cheating (for example, you are likely to lose most of your wingmen's fighters during the second mission that has you fying in a damaged scimitar).Another example : you said that you wouldn't make the Hakaga invulnerable. So while it might be impossible to destroy them on your first try if you play 'legit' because you simply don't have enough torpedoes, it'd be possible if you cheat.
What I meant was basically : Will we able to have every Firekka pilot alive (not counting the ones who would die due to a script) at the end of the game *without cheating*, or will some deaths be unavoidable because the player doesn't have time to save everybody?
Quarto
Unknown Enemy
Well, considering the nature of the battle, you'll certainly have a hard time achieving this - in the final series, you'll be far too busy trying to save the world to pay attention to what's happening to one of your wingmen. But yes, it will be possible to do this without cheating - all you have to do is pray that when your wingmen get shot up, they manage to eject instead of dying.
Sharpshooter
Rear Admiral
Hehe, I thought so. ...So, saving the wingmen will be mainly down to luck (and praying ). I remember a team member saying that the last mission (or something like that) that has you escorting the marines would be ten times harder than trying to 'torpedo' a Hakaga, so I'm guessing we will indeed be pretty busy.
). I remember a team member saying that the last mission (or something like that) that has you escorting the marines would be ten times harder than trying to 'torpedo' a Hakaga, so I'm guessing we will indeed be pretty busy.
Winnyfred
Rear Admiral
Looks like I started a pretty nice conversation. The reason I asked was because I liked the challenge in WCP of keeping my wingman alive, and myself at the same time. Sure Standoff would be hard if you lost all your wingmen on a mission, but wouldn't that make you fly better so you have the help you need on a mission? Also is it possible to make every mission ejectable? Not like if you jump out as soon as you take off, but while on a mission. If you have more numbers than the enemy on that nav point and you eject, can you be picked up by friendly if you are winning?