How'd the TCS-Gwenyvar get Rapiers?

[Concordia]

Good job!

But yeah, I don't think they ever really intended for the ship you encountered to be the Gwenhyvar - that's why they threw in the whole Johann thing in SM1 in the first place. The term "Gwenhyvar" is just the WC equivalent of something like the flying dutchman...

C'mon they would know if TCS-Johann was captured... it would either be presumed missing or destroyed. I don't recall it being a rescue mission, just a routine Rendezvous.

TCS-Johann would have to be a real-name at least in WC because they have a ship registry and would know if the ship was under a name that didn't exist, and would also know where it was located (where it was supposed to patrol). They wouldn't have ordered a rendezvous with a ship that either didn't exist, or did exist but was in the wrong location...

My guess is that whatever the actual destroyer's name was (it didn't have to be Gwenhyvar), the Kilrathi crew changed it to TCS-Johann by monitoring transmissions from it, since that was the only way they could have known Johann was in the vicintity. They would have probably blown up the Johann since there was no further Rendezvous with it, and then proceeded on as the Johann.

-Concordia

 

[Viper61]

Mission Briefing, 06:00 hours, 2655.030.
Halcyon: Quiet, everyone. We have an emergency situation here. We’ve received a distress call from the Johann, an Exeter-class ship that was attacked by the Kilrathi several hours ago. They’ve drifted right into Kilrathi territory. I need someone to guard them while they complete enough repairs so they can reach the Tiger’s Claw. Unfortunately, I also need most of you here to protect the Claw from another possible ambush.

It was a rescue mission, and apparently the distress call had went out many hours prior to the mission briefing. Alot of things can happen in several hours, including Kilrathi taking over the ship.

My guess is that whatever the actual destroyer's name was (it didn't have to be Gwenhyvar), the Kilrathi crew changed it to TCS-Johann by monitoring transmissions from it, since that was the only way they could have known Johann was in the vicintity. They would have probably blown up the Johann since there was no further Rendezvous with it, and then proceeded on as the Johann.

Okay I'm having trouble deciphering the last paragraph there. Blair refers to it in SM2 as the Johann, so apparently after all the fur finally settled, intel figured out it was the Johann. The Kilrathi crew changed the name of it to Johann and probably blew it up, then proceeded on as the Johann? However that was meant, here's my take on it. The Johann was attacked by Kilrathi and drifted into Kilrathi space, severely damaged, and radioed for help. The Tiger's Claw received that call and sent our heroes out after it several hours later. During those several hours while the Johann was drifting through Kilrathi space, another Cat patrol stumbled across the Exeter and took control of her.
Your theory is that the Kilrathi did already poses the Exeter and lured them into the trap under guise of the Johann. This doesn't mesh well with your middle statement which I believe to be true. The Cats would have to use a ship that they knew was patrolling the area. If there had been another Johann patrolling the Confederation side of the Border, the Tigers Claw would have probably been able to confirm this through a radio call (maybe a reason for the delay of several hours in going after the Johann?) and known that the Kilrahti Exeter was a fake (the Sivar fleet already knew at this time that the Claw was tracking them, so there really wouldn't be any need to be running that silent).
Anyway, since we know it was the Johann thanks to Blair in SM2, it would stand to reason that the Kilrathi would have had to capture the Johann as I have theorized (or something similar- like taking it over the first time and sending an "audio-only" distress call, something that would have made me very suspicious anyway), as any other way employing some scheme would have lent itself to being proven false by the Tigers Claw (resulting in a fully armed strike force showing up, instead of just an escort flight).

C-ya

 

[Haesslich]

C'mon they would know if TCS-Johann was captured... it would either be presumed missing or destroyed. I don't recall it being a rescue mission, just a routine Rendezvous.

How would they know if the Johann was captured, if the ship had been taken sometime after the distress call went out? The Tiger's Claw only knew it was attacked by Kilrathi and adrift, as noted in the Jotunheim 3 briefing:

Mission Briefing, 06:00 hours, 2655.030

Halcyon: Quiet, everyone. We have an emergency situation here. We’ve received a distress call from the Johann, an Exeter-class ship that was attacked by the Kilrathi several hours ago. They’ve drifted right into Kilrathi territory. I need someone to guard them while they complete enough repairs so they can reach the Tiger’s Claw. Unfortunately, I also need most of you here to protect the Claw from another possible ambush.

Spirit: Maverick and I can take care of this situation, Colonel.

Halcyon: Good. Here’s your mission data. You’ll launch immediately and go to Nav 1. If the Johann has drifted past that point, intercept them at Nav 2. Defend them from any Kilrathi in the area while they repair their ship and then escort them back to the Tiger’s Claw.

The Colonel assigns the other wings to different patrol duties.

Halcyon: That’s all. Pilots, prepare for launch.

As Viper61 noted, a lot can happen in that time, including a platoon of Kilrathi boarding the ship, killing the crew before they could raise the alarm (jamming technology doesn't seem that uncommon either), and then putting some pilots who'd studied human craft into the Rapier II cockpits - all without having to worry about whether a captured Exeter from several years back would've had Rapier II's.

TCS-Johann would have to be a real-name at least in WC because they have a ship registry and would know if the ship was under a name that didn't exist, and would also know where it was located (where it was supposed to patrol). They wouldn't have ordered a rendezvous with a ship that either didn't exist, or did exist but was in the wrong location...

My guess is that whatever the actual destroyer's name was (it didn't have to be Gwenhyvar), the Kilrathi crew changed it to TCS-Johann by monitoring transmissions from it, since that was the only way they could have known Johann was in the vicintity. They would have probably blown up the Johann since there was no further Rendezvous with it, and then proceeded on as the Johann.

The Johann WAS a real ship - it was real enough to show up in the Tiger's Claw's registries, and to be known in the area, and thus needing assistance. I'm pretty sure that they'd be aware of where ships were assigned to what sector, which would allow them to note anomalies (like a TCS Concordia appearing where it shouldn't be, since it's currently in Enigma, yet somehow it's in Bifrost system) which would indicate unsophisticated enemy traps.

Again, why bring in a third Exeter into the equation when there was a genuine ship nearby? I doubt that Confed Intel would screw up so badly, with regards to knowing about what ship was where, given that they'd have access to the classified locations and missions of every ship in the fleet... and SM2 takes place several weeks after that incident, which would have been more than enough time to confirm the Johann's status, considering that they'd retrieved the Sivar wreckage as well.

 

[gryphon]

"Originally Posted by WC1, SM1: Tiger's Claw - Jotunheim System"

This cracks me up

 

[Haesslich]

Second Exeter nearby, even - third TCS-built ship in the area.

"It was the second Exeter, on the grassy knoll..."

 

[Concordia]

Okay, so the Johann was attacked and captured by Kilrathi ships. It carried Rapiers onboard...

It was not the Gwenhyvar... either it was a rumor, or the actual Gwenhyvar is also out there with whatever fighter complement it may have.

So, that pretty much solves it.

-Concordia