How was the Concordia downed?

Originally posted by dacis2
honestly? i think that IS an exageration. all they need would be a coupla (10-20) carriers, 50-75 Tallahassee and 100 Destroyers. that's not all of Confleet right?
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With the losses the Confederation took before WC3 ended with the Kilrah strike.... that's more than what was left of ConFleet. If I recall the end of Fleet Action, we had two carriers under construction and two more who were stripped out in the Moonbase docks destroyed, lost the Lexington (though it was rebuilt later), and nearly lost Concordia. By the time of WC3, Confed losses were so severe that it was a matter of just a few months, maybe even a few weeks before Confed lost so much ground that the Kilrathi fleet would be over Earth, if not for Blair's efforts.

10 heavy carriers is probably all Confed had left by the end of the War, that and a few light carriers, a bunch of Escort carriers, some destroyers, some cruisers...

And against one HUGE ship, whose armor is supposed to be so thick as to be invulnerable against torpedoes.

Yeah, that's a standstill to me.
 
IMO the old Confederation class would have given the Kilrathi Dreadnaught a serious headache. Yes, its impressive that a 1km ship could hurt a 22km ship. But seriously, what could a 1km ship with fewer fighters, less armor, and less firepower do that could seriously threaten a 22km ship? Had the Confederation had more of the Confederation class, I have no doubt they would have been in the front of the attacks against the Kilrathi dreadnaught. PTCs, even if not exactly stable, were the best of the fleet killers the Confeds had.

But it seems, as already mentioned, that the Confederation was taken a serious beating. After having already lost most of their newest and best ships they were relegated to brining into service older ships that were less capable. It was the Confeds fighters, and lot of luck that saved the Confederation. Had the Kilrathi had time to bring their Dreadnaughts into the main battle, all would likely have been lost.

Now, an interesting fight would have been a Vesuvius and Confederation battlegroup against the Kilrathi dreadnaught.
 
Note: Ships from WC4 and onwards will not be used for Confed or Kilrathi sides. The mod is based IN the kilrathi war, and includes the ships from that era, regardless of weather they were destroyed or not.

But anyway, if you had a fleet led by the Connie and a fleet led by a WC3 Dread, i think the cats would come out on top... Remember, it contains cap ships mainly from WC1/2 and fighters mainly from WC3...
And why was the Sivar designed to attack stations when it had all those turrets on it? :confused:
 
er... it ain't "torpedo proof" more like "it has a really thick layer of molecular bonded armour" i took it out with 8 dumbfires. anyway, how on earth does the Vesuvius turn like that? in the battle with the st. helens, i tried to take out all it's turrets. i was in a banshee. i took out about 45% of the turrets when the ship slammed into me. that damned thing's more manuverable than a fighter!
 
Originally posted by Newcommanderondablock
And why was the Sivar designed to attack stations when it had all those turrets on it? :confused:
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It should be able to defend itself also.
 
anyway, how on earth does the Vesuvius turn like that? in the battle with the st. helens, i tried to take out all it's turrets. i was in a banshee. i took out about 45% of the turrets when the ship slammed into me. that damned thing's more manuverable than a fighter!
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If I recall correctly, the Vesuvius' super-turning-ability is an error -- the result of trying to script the Vesuvius/St. Helens battle in-game and then giving up...

vesuvius would have one. it had torpedo prrof armor remember...
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Not torpedo proof -- *flashpak* proof... and it's not the result of super-armor -- it's the result of an alloy which prevents the flashpak from superheating the ships skin.

And why was the Sivar designed to attack stations when it had all those turrets on it?
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Not stations... stationary targets. Cities and such. Did you play SM1? The Sivar Dreadnought is a weapon for attacking planets... its weapon is too slow to hit another ship.

And against one HUGE ship, whose armor is supposed to be so thick as to be invulnerable against torpedoes.
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Torpedoes do damage the dreadnought, IIRC.

10 heavy carriers is probably all Confed had left by the end of the War, that and a few light carriers, a bunch of Escort carriers, some destroyers, some cruisers...
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At the end of Fleet Action, the Confederation should have 8 fleet carriers (Concordia and Confederation class) with 4 more coming online before WC3. Concordia is lost, so that's 11 fleet carriers circa WC3. The Kilrathi should have 17 fleet carriers (Snakeir class - 2 of which are crippled and in drydock) and 9 heavy carriers (Hakaga class - 2 of which are crippled and in drydock).

The Kilrathi had also built a new fleet of Bhantkara class heavy carriers (we encounter them at Blackmane Losing 1, Ariel 1, Ariel 3, Hyperion 2 and Freya 1 in WC3 PC... I'm going to have to look over the 3DO versio tonight to get a total count... and then add in video sequences and the Karga) and several Hvar’kann class dreadnoughts (I'm thinking 3, but there may be as many as five -- I'll have a definate number tonight).

None of this takes into account light carriers (which Confed uses en-masse, and the Kilrathi have just begun to produce in WC3), escort carriers (used now in large numbers by Confed and the Kilrathi), strike carriers (50 Bengals would have been produced by WC3 -- most were probably lost), cruisers and destroyers (which number in the thousands-per-class according to the handbook) and weird stuff like the Lexington from Armada.
 
The Bengal class was still in use? And they had a lot of them? That doesn't entirely make sense. The Bengal strike carriers were relatively heavili armed and had a good sized fighter compliment. From what I hear the Concordia class was almost completely unarmed except for anti-fighter weapons. Wouldn't the Bengal class be good enough to be a Fleet Carrier seeing as they were well armed and had almost the same number of fighters as a Confederation?
 
Well, that's an interesting question...

I think the answer is that it's just not why the Bengal class ships were built -- when you put all that anti-ship weaponry into a ship it's just a waste to make it the center of a battlegroup where it'll be used. Not everything in the war is exactly equal -- it's not a carrier-for-carrier thing. Confed's Bengals are probably more of a counter for the *massive* Kilrathi heavy cruiser fleet...

A note on weaponry, though -- the turrets you see in WC3/4 are the ships *batteries*. They're heavier lasers (and other weapons) used for capship to capship combat. You don't actually see any of the anti-fighter or the really heavy stuff. The Kilrathi dreadnought mounts 15 large-calibur lasers... and hundreds of smaller anti-fighter guns.
 
Originally posted by Bandit LOAF

escort carriers (used now in large numbers by Confed and the Kilrathi)
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I'd dispute that... At the begining of Fleet Action it's mentioned how the facilities for the construction of escort carriers were not yet fully operational. I very much doubt that they would be able to conceal many of those during the false peace. That leaves the Kilrathi around 250 days IIRC to finish the construction yards and build escort carriers before the end of the war. I doubt very many were completed.
 
Thousands?

Um... If Confed and the Cats had thousands of destroyers and cruisers, why did the Battle of Earth have less than 200 capital ships total?

And if I remember, Fleet Action said something about the Kilrathi having only about 20 heavy cruisers...
 
Re: Thousands?

Originally posted by Darth Thrakhath
Um... If Confed and the Cats had thousands of destroyers and cruisers, why did the Battle of Earth have less than 200 capital ships total?

And if I remember, Fleet Action said something about the Kilrathi having only about 20 heavy cruisers...
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Presumably, the figures you quoted would be the number of ships that were readily available. The rest of the ships would be in various fleets throughout the respective territories, and would not be readily available due to distance, need to leave them in their current duties, and just plain difficulty in moving large numbers of ships long distances.
 
Oh yeah, i suppose your right. But werent most of the ships mothballed? So why didnt the other fleets lend any ships to defend earth, or mount an attack
 
The other fleets still need ships for other duties, such as watching the Kilrathi (just because the Kilrathi are attacking Earth doesn't mean they can't attack elsewhere), responding to civilian emergencies, and basic anti-piracy and smuggling duties. If the fleet's been mothballed, then the outlying fleets have probably been cut to the bone.
The only fleet likely to have ships to spare would be the one on the far side of Confed space, and that fleet was probably flying Scimitars until after the war.
 
Re: Thousands?

Originally posted by Darth Thrakhath
Um... If Confed and the Cats had thousands of destroyers and cruisers, why did the Battle of Earth have less than 200 capital ships total?

And if I remember, Fleet Action said something about the Kilrathi having only about 20 heavy cruisers...
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Most of the ships were in mothballs at that point... or spread around. They couldn't call everything back because the Kilrathi had such numbers that they could just go and beat the crap out of the rest of confed, even if they were losing the battle at Earth. No matter what the problem, it's pretty much impossible to call back everything in that huge volume of space. If you leave yourself open everywhere, you'll just get hit somewhere easy.

The 20 cruisers number refers to those cruisers that carry fighters that they believe will be coming with the fleet to Earth. They mention earlier that they were using cruisers to escort their transports, which left too few cruisers to escort carriers. The fact that they actually had enough to escort their transports tells you of the numbers. The Kilrathi had lost around 450 transports between End Run and Fleet Action, and though they were hurting, they were still able to supply the Hari project and their fleet, to a degree. They had a lot of transports and, therefore, a lot of cruisers.
 
Re: Re: Thousands?

Originally posted by TC


Most of the ships were in mothballs at that point... or spread around. They couldn't call everything back because the Kilrathi had such numbers that they could just go and beat the crap out of the rest of confed, even if they were losing the battle at Earth. No matter what the problem, it's pretty much impossible to call back everything in that huge volume of space. If you leave yourself open everywhere, you'll just get hit somewhere easy.

The 20 cruisers number refers to those cruisers that carry fighters that they believe will be coming with the fleet to Earth. They mention earlier that they were using cruisers to escort their transports, which left too few cruisers to escort carriers. The fact that they actually had enough to escort their transports tells you of the numbers. The Kilrathi had lost around 450 transports between End Run and Fleet Action, and though they were hurting, they were still able to supply the Hari project and their fleet, to a degree. They had a lot of transports and, therefore, a lot of cruisers.
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Well, ConFleet had most of its Carriers in mothballs, a lot of destroyers either obliterated, in drydock for refitting, or out on patrol since the Kilrathi in Fleet Action not only had 5 of their supercarriers but still had their regular carrier fleet (they did send three of the things against the Landreich) that could strike anywhere in Confed space. And did.

Besides, most of the issues with transportation in Fleet Action's time were because several hundred transports were devoted to supporting the Hari shipyard and the supercarrier project, as Thrakath admits to in the first chapter. But still, they had a lot of cruisers kicking around... they had more shipyards to begin with, and have been building more warships for longer than Confed has, in anticipation of another battle which the Terran Confederation ends up supplying.

Like Bainbridge said, ConFleet had to go begging to the Senate to get funding to build more shipyards.. yet still got turned down. So they started with fewer shipyards and ships to start, and they kept getting whittled down with repeated Kilrathi strikes.
 
Originally posted by Bandit LOAF
Banbridge. Bainbridge is some water-navy founder person.
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I've to admit that it's always and again fascinating that you really locate EVERY single typo in any name/thing connected in any way to any WC related thing :D
 
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