Hawk

Dragon1

Dragon1

Rear Admiral
Did anybody else notice that Hawk went from being a full colonel in 2672/2673 to a major in 2681? Also, didn't Maniac get a promotion from Confed during the border worlds incident, yet in Prophecy, he is still a major? Maniac was a major from 2654/2655 to at least 2681? Wow, someone in command must have really not liked him!

Did it also appear that Blair was subservient to the CAG on the Midway, when the CAG was a commander (O-5) and Blair was a Commodore/Brigadier General (0-7, I think Blair transferred services midway through the game. In the beginning he wore a sky blue uniform of the navy, in the end, he donned a dark blue of the space force). Any thoughts?
 
Did anybody else notice that Hawk went from being a full colonel in 2672/2673 to a major in 2681?
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I don't think anyone did notice that - according to Prophecy's ICIS manual, Hawk is still a Colonel. (His Waypoint! column is by 'Col. Jacob Manley').

Did it also appear that Blair was subservient to the CAG on the Midway, when the CAG was a commander (O-5) and Blair was a Commodore/Brigadier General (0-7, I think Blair transferred services midway through the game. In the beginning he wore a sky blue uniform of the navy, in the end, he donned a dark blue of the space force). Any thoughts?
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Blair was assigned to the Midway as an observer - as such, he had no official place in its chain of command. (He was a commodore, he did switch services.)
 
Didn't Hawk wear the major's chest insignia. Gold square with a slim gold bar next to it, as opposed to the colonel's insignia of a gold rectangle, with a long gold bar above.

I know, petty details. Beat that star trek geeks!
 
Dragon1 said:
Also, didn't Maniac get a promotion from Confed during the border worlds incident, yet in Prophecy, he is still a major? Maniac was a major from 2654/2655 to at least 2681? Wow, someone in command must have really not liked him!
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I'm pretty sure that that was merely a joke played on Maniac by everyone's favorite Col.
 
He got promoted right after he defected to the UBW. He hadn't recieved the letter according to Blair who knows about it...
 
I don't know if he was or not...I thought they mentioned the event in TPoF that it came through after his defection...been a while since I played wc4 or read TPoF...
 
I've never read the book, so perhaps it states that he really was promoted. However, the game did not give me that impression at all.
 
Hello,


Dragon1 said:
Didn't Hawk wear the major's chest insignia. Gold square with a slim gold bar next to it, as opposed to the colonel's insignia of a gold rectangle, with a long gold bar above.

I know, petty details. Beat that star trek geeks!
Click to expand...

maybe this means something absolut different in the future? Or do you really think in the year 26xx an united world will continue just US military Tradition?
 
Dragon1 said:
Also, didn't Maniac get a promotion from Confed during the border worlds incident, yet in Prophecy, he is still a major? Maniac was a major from 2654/2655 to at least 2681? Wow, someone in command must have really not liked him!

Did it also appear that Blair was subservient to the CAG on the Midway, when the CAG was a commander (O-5) and Blair was a Commodore/Brigadier General (0-7, I think Blair transferred services midway through the game. In the beginning he wore a sky blue uniform of the navy, in the end, he donned a dark blue of the space force). Any thoughts?
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Maniac did get a promotion at the end of the WC4N (not the one Blair was kidding him about when they defect) when Confed recognized his BW rank of a full bird Colonel. He was also offered the WC of a light carriers (the Kiev) air wing after a stint in an officers training program.
Now, knowing Maniac as we do, its not a huge stretch of the imagination that he either screwed something up in the training program and was thus busted back down to Major right then and there or somewhere along the way he made two large mistakes in 7 years to be busted down to Lt. Col. and then to Major. Its not unheard of to be busted down that far as Blair is reduced back at least 2 ranks (Lt. Col or Col. - can't remember which - to Captain) after being charged with negligence . . . something Maniac is very capable of :).

As for Hawk, the costume department needed a wakeup call :). I have only the CZ's insignias to go from as to 'what is what rank' in WC, but both Spyder (who is a Major at the time IIRC) and Hawk seem to be wearing Captains bars in these polaroids (Majors are turned the opposite way). Either way, Col. Manley should be a little upset with the costume person :).

Spyder
Hawk

As for Blair, he did transfer to the Navy between WC4 and Prophecy, but not in the middle of Prophecy, as the wording in your post seems to suggest. He is still called Commodore Blair up until the time they go after the Wormhole gate. I think the 'blue Space Forces' uniform you are refering to is the generic dark blue flight suit he dons. I don't think we see him in the Space Forces uniform anytime during Prophecy.

C-ya
 
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In The Price of Freedom, after Blair takes command of the Intrepid, and Maniac takes over the slot as WC, Blair comments as to how well Maniac is handling the wing. Seems that when he finally got some responsibility, he managed to calm down and take things seriously enough to perform quite well. Since that never happened in the game, things are different in the book. Since Forstchen has yet to continue the timeline beyond TPOF, we don't know what becomes of Maniac or Blair in that universe.
 
Also, in SO2, where Maniac commands the Wild Eagles test squadron, he does show a measure of responsibility. He repeatedly shows that he cares for the welfare of the pilots under him. For example, when the Morningstar is showing problems with its jump drive, Maniac insists on flying the next test himself instead of having one of his subordinates take the risk, saying "if anything's going to happen, it will happen to me".
 
Didn't Hawk wear the major's chest insignia. Gold square with a slim gold bar next to it, as opposed to the colonel's insignia of a gold rectangle, with a long gold bar above.
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More worrysome, of course, is the fact that Hawk continues to appear in briefing videos after he has died. :)

As for rank insignia: the only picture I can find of Hawk in his Prophecy jumpsuit is wearing what we generally believe is a Captain's insignia (small bar on the right). It's worth noting that the actual meaning of the WC3/4/P-era rank bars was entirely decided by fandom rather than by any sort of official source - so the rank definitions are based on what is most often correct rather than something set in stone. (There are plenty of problems - Blair flipped his Colonel's insignia around all the time... Casey switches between 1st and 2nd Lt.'s bars in a number of scenes and all of the pilots in the WC:CCG wear only silver Navy Captain's bars...)

In The Price of Freedom, after Blair takes command of the Intrepid, and Maniac takes over the slot as WC, Blair comments as to how well Maniac is handling the wing. Seems that when he finally got some responsibility, he managed to calm down and take things seriously enough to perform quite well. Since that never happened in the game, things are different in the book. Since Forstchen has yet to continue the timeline beyond TPOF, we don't know what becomes of Maniac or Blair in that universe.
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That's sort of a silly claim, given that we don't see who the Intrepid's Wing Commander is in the game (as in the book, Blair is the Captain). Nor does the fact that Maniac might have commanded the Intrepid's fighters for two weeks contradict anything in Prophecy (besides -- I don't have the book to check right now, but my gut tells me Maniac was a *squadron* commander and not a wing commander.)
 
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BarFly said:
Hello,




maybe this means something absolut different in the future? Or do you really think in the year 26xx an united world will continue just US military Tradition?
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I am not using the US military model, I am using the rank model provided in the Victory Streaks WC3 manual.
 
Dragon1 said:
I am not using the US military model, I am using the rank model provided in the Victory Streaks WC3 manual.
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Actually, I don't recall my Victory Streak OR KS manual including rank insignia pictures. The only time we see rank insignia pictures is in the original Claw Marks manual... where the rank for Major is an eagle holding a staff between its claws.
 
If Hawk is a full colonel TCSF (o-6), how can the CAG, a commander in the TCN (o-5), give him orders. I think they probably screwed up Prophecy. The CAG on a huge carrier like that should be a Naval Captain or Space Force Colonel.
 
Ijuin said:
Also, in SO2, where Maniac commands the Wild Eagles test squadron, he does show a measure of responsibility. He repeatedly shows that he cares for the welfare of the pilots under him.
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...Like when he leaves one of them floating at a jump point, so that Blair ends up having to mount a rescue mission? :p
 
Dragon1 said:
If Hawk is a full colonel TCSF (o-6), how can the CAG, a commander in the TCN (o-5), give him orders. I think they probably screwed up Prophecy. The CAG on a huge carrier like that should be a Naval Captain or Space Force Colonel.
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Maniac isn't a full Colonel in Prophecy... but even if he was, the CAG would be able to give him orders because she's higher in the chain of command than he his.

Rank != position.
 
Did I not specify Hawk, not Maniac. Besides, my point was why would someone in the highest wing position not hold the highest rank? Typically rank=experience, Hawk, Maniac, or even Spyder would most likely have far more experience than the CAG. Why in Prophecy is the CAG Navy, not Space Force. Blair held a similar position in Wing Commander 3 on the much smaller TCS Victory, he wasn't Navy. He even held the rank of colonel, one grade higher than a naval commander?

Again, I think Prophecy 'screwed the pooch'!
 
The CAG position is something we don't see in the other games - Drake's job is to coordinate multiple fighter wings (the Victory had only one). She'd have three Space Forces Wing Commanders directly below her in the chain of command. No matter what their rating/amount of experience/length of service/number of decorations/etc. is, they'll always be below her when it comes to issuing orders. If Confed decides to make Maniac a general officer, but leaves him as Wing Commander of the Black Widows then Commander Drake will still be able to order him around... and if Drake buys it in a strike and gets replaced by a junior lieutenant, that lieutenant will have authority over the Midway's fighters.

(Heck, look at Hawk - he outranks Maniac by two full grades, but Maniac commanded the Widows (for a while, anyway).)
 
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