Has anyone noticed THIS inconsistancy?

[Saturnyne]

This has to do with Hawk.

"Spyder" says Hawk's home planet was Milon 2. In WCIV, it says his homeworld was Ella Minora.

Hawk said that Iceman pulled him aside and told him to get used to the fact that his wingman were dead. When did Hawk and Iceman ever meet, and why wouldn't Blair have recognized him when he arrived on the Intrepid?

Hawk also couldn't have been witness to, nor could he have known the circumstances surrounding Iceman's death. Hawk didn't serve aboard the Tiger's Claw when Iceman was still alive. That goes into another one of Hawk's stories, saying that Iceman held off a "clan of cats" while Hawk was trying to collect himself.

Now, if I'm wrong about this, then do tell me... but I do not think that Hawk ever served with Iceman, nor was Hawk aboard the Tiger's Claw. I haven't played SM1 or 2 though, so you'll have to correct me if I'm wrong.

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[Bandit LOAF]

Raoul Dominquez and Eisen served together during the *Venice Offensive* in 2643 -- not to be confused with the Vega Campaign, which culminated in an attack on Venice in 2654. Eisen and Dominguez also attended the Academy together, some ten years earlier... (Eisen was the class of 2637, Dominguez was class of 2635).

Since Alcor is still Terran, we can assume that the Confederation *held* it after taking Severin... Vagabond's fighter was probably safe at that airstrip.

My guess is that the danger inherent in multiple ships jumping at the same time is directly related to the size of the jump line -- the Victory's battlegroup probably only passed through larger jump-tunnels.

Hawk's story is a tad confusing.

Hawk joined the Space Force as an enlisted man, and was assigned to the TCS Tiger's Claw as a comm tech in 2655 (just after Operation Thor's Hammer). Major Michael Casey took note of Hawk, and reccomended him for the Space Forces OCS program -- to which he was accepted. While away from the Tiger's Claw, he kept in contact with Iceman, and the two became friends. It was during this time that both Mylon 2 and the Tiger's Claw were destroyed. After passing Officer Candidacy School and going through Flight School, Hawk was assigned to the TCS Austin, along with Iceman. During one of his first missions, he lost three wingmen (including two bunkmates) -- Iceman flies as his wingman on the next mission, and kills a clan of cats. Soon after, Iceman is captured and executed during a deep space patrol in the B'shriss system -- his body is recovered by Chris Blair of Caernarvon Station. As he had been a good friend of Iceman, Hawk learns of the actual circumstances of his death. Contrary to the belief in this thread, Hawk does not serve on the Tarawa -- in fact, he doesn't see much combat between 2656 and 2668... he earns his five kill ace ribbon. He earns a citation for bravery during the Battle of Terra in 2669, and then serves with Panther in the Astoria System for the rest of the war... scoring a total of 91 kills during these two actions. He and Panther gain a certain notoriety during the Astoria affair, allowing Blair and Vagabond to recognize their names in Wing IV. The rest of his career (the Academy disgrace and the Border Worlds stuff) is pretty clear...

Blair and Panther did both serve on the Tarawa -- Panther is mentioned in the WCIV novel, and Blair is mentioned in both the WCIII and WCIV novels (the WCIII novel doesn't specify *when* he served on the Tarawa, but Sosa confirms that he was there for Operation Backlash, in the WC4 novel).

 

[Hero]

Blair did reconize Hawk when he came to the Intrepid, he said something like:" I know these names, it's Hawk ad Panther". I think he had to know him to know his callsign. I don't think he'd rememberd it if he read about him somewhere years ago.

The 'Claw was a big ship. Most of the chance is that Blair did know Hawk and flew with him. The fact that he didn't appear untill WC4 is another story. I think there were other missions besides the ones you get to fly, and other people you knew from the ship.

 

[Quarto]

To add to all the stuff LOAF just said, Panther says she served on the Tarawa with Admiral Richards. I don't think Richards was on the Tarawa during the Kilrah Run, so there's no reason why they would have met.

 

[Quarto]

Hawk's homeworld WAS Mylon Two. But, it no longer exists. I think that the "homeworld" concept is a parallel to our present-day concept of citizenship. And I don't know about you, but I haven't met anybody who claimed to be a citizen of, say, South Vietnam (poor example, really, but you get the point). Maybe he decided to re-register on Ella Minora?

The Tiger's Claw had 104 fighters, and about as many pilots. Obviously, the missions you flew weren't the only ones being undertaken, nor were the people you met in the recroom the only pilots on the ship. Indeed, I recall several occasions when Shotglass or Paladin would mention some guy from some other squadron who came by earlier with some new rumour.

[This message has been edited by Quarto (edited October 28, 2000).]

 

[Earthworm]

Hawk also couldn't have been witness to, nor could he have known the circumstances surrounding Iceman's death.

Hawk wasn't on the Claw at the time of Icemans death. They meet eachother on the Claw, and later maintained regular correspondence. Than Hawk learned about Icemans death, but he didn't witness it. IIRC, Hawk wasn't a pilot while on the Claw, at least not for his whole TOD aboard her, only later did he start flying. Blair could hawe known Hawk from the time when they served aboard the Tarawa during the raid to Kilrah.

Hawk didn't serve aboard the Tiger's Claw when Iceman was still alive. That goes into another one of Hawk's stories, saying that Iceman held off a "clan of cats" while Hawk was trying to collect himself.

But he was on the Claw. The Bengal class has around 700 people on board IIRC, it is perfectly possible that Blair never meet Hawk there, especially if he wasn't one of the pilots.


[This message has been edited by Earthworm (edited October 28, 2000).]

 

[Mad Hatter]

Hey, you`re talking about End Run, right? I don`t remember seeing the two`s names mentioned in the book. Enlighten me.

 

[Earthworm]

It was mentioned in the WC4 novel, that Hawk, as well as Panther served on the Tarawa. I don't exactly remember when we're told that Blair was on the Tarawa, but it's probably also in the WC4 novel.

 

[Dralthi5]

It's in the WC3 novel, page 185, when Kevin shows up on the Victory.

"We served together a few years back on the Tarawa..." or something like that.

You know, I don't remember where it says Hawk served on the Tarawa. I remember Panther saying she was there, but not Hawk, Can you give me a page number or something?

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If I'm locked on, there's no such thing as evasive action!

 

[Earthworm]

Not really. I've skimmed through TPOF, but I can't find it. But I'll be finishing FC in a few days and then I'll start TPOF, so if I'll let you know where it is.

 

[Wedge009]

Don't forget that Vagabond knew them also, from the "Astoria campaign". Dunno if that's relevant, though. Eisen also mentions serving in the Vega campaign - I guess that'd be on the Victory in WC1 time.

Anyway, I was just wondering, when Vagabond goes to Alcor to punch Dr Severin, why would they leave his Hellcat there? Doesn't seem right to leave the Kilrathi a little pressie.

Also, the jump sequence of the Victory fleet seems very static. It doesn't make sense for all four ships to accelerate and decelerate at exactly the same time. Just being picky.

 

[Earthworm]

Eisen also mentions serving in the Vega campaign - I guess that'd be on the Victory in WC1 time.

You mean when he was talking about the dead captain of the Evil I?

Anyway, I was just wondering, when Vagabond goes to Alcor to punch Dr Severin, why would they leave his Hellcat there? Doesn't seem right to leave the Kilrathi a little pressie.

Eisent had to send someone to get that 'cat. There's no way they'd just abandon a fighter.

Also, the jump sequence of the Victory fleet seems very static. It doesn't make sense for all four ships to accelerate and decelerate at exactly the same time. Just being picky.

Yeah, jumping four ships at the same time is very dangerous. But it's not like OSI would want to waste money on the jump sequence by making them 5 minutes long, and showing one ship jumping after another.

 

[Wedge009]

You mean when he was talking about the dead captain of the Evil I?

No, I mean when Eisen was talking about Dominguez, late-captain of the Intrepid.

Eisen had to send someone to get that 'cat. There's no way they'd just abandon a fighter.

I guessed as much. Just wonderin'

Yeah, jumping four ships at the same time is very dangerous. But it's not like OSI would want to waste money on the jump sequence by making them 5 minutes long, and showing one ship jumping after another.

I just meant it'd be nice to see them decelerate at different rates, the way it is it seems like they're connected with cables.

[This message has been edited by Wedge009 (edited October 28, 2000).]

 

[Wedge009]

Since Alcor is still Terran, we can assume that the Confederation *held* it after taking Severin... Vagabond's fighter was probably safe at that airstrip.

Didn't Melek tell the Emperor that Severin was the only one rescued, the marines left all the other prisoners alone (!!!). This would imply that the Kilrathi still owned the system (quote "incursion" into Alcor) at least until the War was over.

 

[Earthworm]

To add to all the stuff LOAF just said, Panther says she served on the Tarawa with Admiral Richards. I don't think Richards was on the Tarawa during the Kilrah Run, so there's no reason why they would have met.

Panther and Richards could have served together in the Free Corps, before the BoT, but it's perfectly possible that Richards was on the Tarawa during the Raid on Kilrah. I belive it's mentioned in one of the novels that Richards liked to travel on various missions under a false name, maybe he did catch a ride on the Tarawa. The Tarawa wasn't in service for to long so there hasn't really been that much possiblities for the two to serve together. After the End Run, Tarawa spent a year in a dry dock, and then sailed under the Confed flag for a short time before the false peace. Then of course the Free Corps when she was sent to Landreich, about one more year in Confed before the war ended, and then she was sold to Landreich with heavy damage, and renamed to Independence.

 

[Quarto]

Ah, but if he served under an assumed name, then would Panther know he was there? And if he was there, why didn't he assume command when Captain what's-his-name decided to retreat?
More to the point, I don't think even Richards would have done this without Banbridge's permission, and somehow I don't see Banbridge risking his best Intel officer on a suicide mission...

Still, I suppose anything's possible. I mean, if Blair spent the whole Kilrah Run hiding in a closet, then I s'pose Richards & Panther could've too

.

 

[Wedge009]

Whaddaya mean Blair hid in a closet?!

 

[Earthworm]

Ah, but if he served under an assumed name, then would Panther know he was there?

Maybe Panther was on need to know basis? Maybe he wasn't under an assumed name?

And if he was there, why didn't he assume command when Captain what's-his-name decided to retreat?

And why didn't Blair assume the command? Maybe that wasn't his duty. Blair wasn't there as a pilot or anything, and didn't try to take the comand even though he was higher ranked than Bear. Same with Richards, he had a much higher rank, but Bear was technicly more important aboard that ship. BTW, it's O'brian

More to the point, I don't think even Richards would have done this without Banbridge's permission, and somehow I don't see Banbridge risking his best Intel officer on a suicide mission...

If his presence was required for the operation to succed, he wouldn't have a problem sending him. Richards, after all, probably knew more about the Kilrathi than anyone else, if his presence could have somehow made it more possible for the Kilrathi fleet to split up, then Richards would have been there.

Still, I suppose anything's possible. I mean, if Blair spent the whole Kilrah Run hiding in a closet, then I s'pose Richards & Panther could've too

.

If Blair wasn't there as a pilot, or staf officer, than he wouldn't have any more right to take command of the Tarawa than Bear, or for that matter Richards.

 

[Quarto]

Hey Earthworm, do you by any chance study biology? Cause you're real good at dissecting things

.

Anyway, I'm not gonna bother arguing this, because your arguments are all "maybe"s. I do have one question, though. If Blair wasn't a pilot or a staff officer on the Tarawa, what exactly was he? Judging from all the interaction he had with Bear, I still say he hid in the closet

.

BTW, when I said "assume command", I didn't mean after O'Brien died. I meant that O'Brien would've been relieved of command the moment he mentioned retreating.

 

[Bandit LOAF]

This doesn't make *sense*, Earthworm... why would Panther and Richards *need* to be on the Tarawa in End Run? There's no value to lengthy explanations if they're not explaining anything.