pygmypiranha
Vice Admiral
Still I don't approve of it... take note of my new poll to handle this new argument forming... 
Congrats Wedge
Congrats Wedge
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Phillip Tanaka
Swabbie
Banned
The Tiger's Claw. It was the first taste I got of Wing Commander, and as well as an excellent commanding officewr in Halcyon, I really enjoyed the fighters you used. And it also had, in my opinion, the best group of pilots, bar none. And the group, I feel, were bonded together more than the others.
Gotta be the Claw... was the 1st ship you fly off of, just looked cool and realistic (for a distant future space carrier type dealy), had the same kinda homey lived in feel of Tin Can Sally... especally the barracks... the girl pics on the lockers, that leaky pipe in the ceiling they could never quite fix (drip... drip... drip...) 
best characters, best pilots, they did seem to 'bond' the most out of any of the games.
2nd fav would be Tin Can Sally, for most of the same reasons
I for one prefer the Cerb over the Midway, if only from a tactical point of view, can defend itself much better, can out run ANYthing save a figher, and just plain looks cool
Never liked the Concordia or the Midway myself, too big, too ugly, and they both seem based on the "Fleet in one ship" concept which i dont agree with... tho thats a debate for another thread
best characters, best pilots, they did seem to 'bond' the most out of any of the games.2nd fav would be Tin Can Sally, for most of the same reasons
I for one prefer the Cerb over the Midway, if only from a tactical point of view, can defend itself much better, can out run ANYthing save a figher, and just plain looks cool
Never liked the Concordia or the Midway myself, too big, too ugly, and they both seem based on the "Fleet in one ship" concept which i dont agree with... tho thats a debate for another thread
Wedge009
Rogue Leader
I don't know about the Cerberus being able to defend itself better than the Midway. While it's true that its cruiser armaments are much better at engaging capships and fighters, it can only field 30 fighters at most (providing it also has that many pilots), while the Midway can throw out several times more.
The difference in the defences of a cruiser and a carrier are significant enough that I don't think you can positively say that the Cerberus can defend itself better.
The Concordia is a dreadnought, and it too was never meant to be a fleet in itself - it usually had a destroyer escort (William Tell, Hector, etc).
And here your argument of "fleet in one ship" falls apart - the Tiger's Claw is designated a strike carrier, and generally operates independently of any support craft or escorts.
The difference in the defences of a cruiser and a carrier are significant enough that I don't think you can positively say that the Cerberus can defend itself better.
The Concordia is a dreadnought, and it too was never meant to be a fleet in itself - it usually had a destroyer escort (William Tell, Hector, etc).
And here your argument of "fleet in one ship" falls apart - the Tiger's Claw is designated a strike carrier, and generally operates independently of any support craft or escorts.
I was refering to its defensive capabilities by itself, the Midway can of course launch many more fighters in its defense, but in quick enemy strikes when there isnt time to launch lots of fighters, the Cerb can assist in its own defence much better.
And i belive you are incorrect in calling the Concordia a drednought and not a strike carrier, yes i know that in the WC2 ship guide it refers to the Conc as a dred, but 'Drednought' is not a proper ship classifcation, in real navy terminology there is no such type of ship. Drednought was the name of the first modern 'all big gun' Battleship (BB) H.M.S. Drednought, however she was not classified as a 'Drednought' type ship, she was a Battleship (BB).
In common usage the term drednought is slang, for any big heavily armed ship.
The Concordia is a Strike Carrier, we know this from her registration, CVS-65, (CV = carrier - CVE = Carrier, Escort - CVL = Carrier, Light - CVS = Carrier, Strike). Although she may often be reffered to as a drednought because of her very heavy armament, she is technically speaking, a Strike Carrier.
And you are correct that yes the Connie did often have a single destroyer as escort, however the Claw sometimes had one as well (been awile sence i played WC1 so i dont remember the names but i do distinctly remember missions to bring a new destroyer escort to the Claw.
I refered to the Connie as being a 'ship in a fleet' style ship due to the fact that a 'standard' carrier usually has half a dozen or more escort ships, rather then just one (witness the Victory in Wc3).
I should have said the Connie was also based on the "Fleet in a ship" concept but to a lesser degree.
And i belive you are incorrect in calling the Concordia a drednought and not a strike carrier, yes i know that in the WC2 ship guide it refers to the Conc as a dred, but 'Drednought' is not a proper ship classifcation, in real navy terminology there is no such type of ship. Drednought was the name of the first modern 'all big gun' Battleship (BB) H.M.S. Drednought, however she was not classified as a 'Drednought' type ship, she was a Battleship (BB).
In common usage the term drednought is slang, for any big heavily armed ship.
The Concordia is a Strike Carrier, we know this from her registration, CVS-65, (CV = carrier - CVE = Carrier, Escort - CVL = Carrier, Light - CVS = Carrier, Strike). Although she may often be reffered to as a drednought because of her very heavy armament, she is technically speaking, a Strike Carrier.
And you are correct that yes the Connie did often have a single destroyer as escort, however the Claw sometimes had one as well (been awile sence i played WC1 so i dont remember the names but i do distinctly remember missions to bring a new destroyer escort to the Claw.
I refered to the Connie as being a 'ship in a fleet' style ship due to the fact that a 'standard' carrier usually has half a dozen or more escort ships, rather then just one (witness the Victory in Wc3).
I should have said the Connie was also based on the "Fleet in a ship" concept but to a lesser degree.
I like the Intrepid for two reasons. First of all becaue Blair got to command it, so you get the feeling that it is "your" ship. Second, because of the whole "do more with less" spirit of the Border Worlds--you just knew the people there were going to stick together with you through thick and thin, compared to the political climber types like Paulsen.
Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
CVS doesn't mean Strike Carrier. The Tiger's Claw, classed as a strike carrier, is simply designated CV-7. Since the 'real' meaning of CVS (Anti-Submarine Aircraft Carrier) doesn't carry over into WC, it's conceivable that 'CVS' is the designator for dreadnought (IIRC, there is some specific reasoning behind classifying a water-navy ship as a dreadnought -- something to do with the number and calibur of guns...).
The 'Claw very rarely had an escort -- one never appears in WC1 (there are missions to escort destroyers places, but it's usually just bringing them from a jump-in to where they're attacking a colony or somesuch). The exception: During Operation Thor's Hammer the 'Claw served as part of a small battlegroup that included a destroyer, a tanker and a corvette.
The 'Claw very rarely had an escort -- one never appears in WC1 (there are missions to escort destroyers places, but it's usually just bringing them from a jump-in to where they're attacking a colony or somesuch). The exception: During Operation Thor's Hammer the 'Claw served as part of a small battlegroup that included a destroyer, a tanker and a corvette.
Hmm.. intersisting... i dont recall seeing the Claw's full registration anywhere, just the 07 painted on her deck, where did you find the CV-07 at?
Also i wasnt aware of such a type of R/L ship, CVS (Anti-Submarine Aircraft Carrier), as i recall the only carriers that ever did anti-sub duty were the U.S. CVE's in WW2, and also a hellicopter carrier or 2 in the old U.S.S.R. navy, the Moskva class, which the russkies designated an Anti-Submarine Cruiser, tho now that i think of it... maybe the brits had some ASW hellicopter carriers, im not sure...
As for drednoughts, as i explained there is NO such millitary ship classification, post H.M.S. Drednought battleships were sometimes refered to as 'Drednought type or Drednought style' Battleships (armed with 8 or more 12+ inch guns on the centerline) to distenguish them from the older multi-caliber gun battleships that were still in service, but their offical military classification always remained simply Battleship (BB).
Also as far as i am aware, Joan's Fighting Spacecraft 2664, that came with WC2 is the one and only place where the Confederation class is labeled as a Drednought, and even then its only in the text describeing the Phase-Transit Cannon, not in the actual Concordia ship entry (which is screwed up in itself, wrong title and classification compaired to the other ships in the booklet).
So which is more likely? That the confed navy went against all tradition and classified the Confederation class as a "Drednought", with the VERY unlikely abbreviation of "CVS"... or that the writer of Joan's Fighting Spacecraft 2664 simply screwed up?
Hmmmm.... such a puzzle...
Also i wasnt aware of such a type of R/L ship, CVS (Anti-Submarine Aircraft Carrier), as i recall the only carriers that ever did anti-sub duty were the U.S. CVE's in WW2, and also a hellicopter carrier or 2 in the old U.S.S.R. navy, the Moskva class, which the russkies designated an Anti-Submarine Cruiser, tho now that i think of it... maybe the brits had some ASW hellicopter carriers, im not sure...
As for drednoughts, as i explained there is NO such millitary ship classification, post H.M.S. Drednought battleships were sometimes refered to as 'Drednought type or Drednought style' Battleships (armed with 8 or more 12+ inch guns on the centerline) to distenguish them from the older multi-caliber gun battleships that were still in service, but their offical military classification always remained simply Battleship (BB).
Also as far as i am aware, Joan's Fighting Spacecraft 2664, that came with WC2 is the one and only place where the Confederation class is labeled as a Drednought, and even then its only in the text describeing the Phase-Transit Cannon, not in the actual Concordia ship entry (which is screwed up in itself, wrong title and classification compaired to the other ships in the booklet).
So which is more likely? That the confed navy went against all tradition and classified the Confederation class as a "Drednought", with the VERY unlikely abbreviation of "CVS"... or that the writer of Joan's Fighting Spacecraft 2664 simply screwed up?
Hmmmm.... such a puzzle...
Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
Heyo,
Re: CVS carriers in real life. After WW2 the Navy converted a number of Essex class carriers into specialized anti-submarine ships... and re-designated them as 'CVS'.
Re: dreadnoughts in WC. There is certainly a dreadnought classification for ships in the Wing Commander universe, though -- the Kilrathi have several ships (the Sivar, Sivar II, Snakeir and H'varr Kann-classes) given the designation.
Re: The Tiger's Claw. I'm pretty sure we hear the CV designation a few times in manuals and such... the Tiger's Claw comissioning plaque in the WC1 SFC manual is what's sticking in my head right now, though.
Other places where the Concordia is called a dreadnaught... all I'm thinking of right now is the initial specs Origin posted to compuserv before WC2 came out (Google).
Google
Re: CVS carriers in real life. After WW2 the Navy converted a number of Essex class carriers into specialized anti-submarine ships... and re-designated them as 'CVS'.
Re: dreadnoughts in WC. There is certainly a dreadnought classification for ships in the Wing Commander universe, though -- the Kilrathi have several ships (the Sivar, Sivar II, Snakeir and H'varr Kann-classes) given the designation.
Re: The Tiger's Claw. I'm pretty sure we hear the CV designation a few times in manuals and such... the Tiger's Claw comissioning plaque in the WC1 SFC manual is what's sticking in my head right now, though.
Other places where the Concordia is called a dreadnaught... all I'm thinking of right now is the initial specs Origin posted to compuserv before WC2 came out (Google).
Wedge009
Rogue Leader
Simple. It isn't.
But really, Confed is spread very thin - just because a ship is deployed on its own, doesn't necessarily mean it was designed as a 'fleet unto its own'. I know it's supposedly peacetime, but the Lexington in WC4 was on its own, and she's a 'standard' carrier.
I find it hard to believe that an enemy can approach carriers that fast. Unless, of course, the ship is damaged and sensors aren't 100%. In any case, that's what Wasps are for.
Please, dreadnought.
As people like to say, just because they aren't there, doesn't mean they don't exist.
But really, Confed is spread very thin - just because a ship is deployed on its own, doesn't necessarily mean it was designed as a 'fleet unto its own'. I know it's supposedly peacetime, but the Lexington in WC4 was on its own, and she's a 'standard' carrier.WC2 happened to be my first game, but I didn't vote for Concordia just because she was my 'first', there were other reasons, like how the Confederation class was pretty much the flagship of the time. I think only when the Confederations ceased service and the Vesuvius class came into production did that honour switch elsewhere.
Well look at the entry, at the top, where is says the CLASS name of the ship in the entry (Gilgamesh, Waterloo, etc.) it says Concordia, which is incorrect, it should say "Confederation", the Connie is a Confederation-class vessel.
Under "class" in the ship entrys, which obvioulsy means the TYPE of ship based on what all the other entrys say there (Destroyer, Cruiser, etc.) it says "Confederation" when it should say "Strike Carrier" if you believe my arguement on the subject, or "Dreadnought" if you believe the arguement for that.
I would guess whoever wrote the Concordia entry wasnt the same person that wrote the others, and that this person was in a hurry and just plain screwed it up.
Shame too... if Mr. Idiot Writer, had written the entry correctly it might have saved us all from the Dreadnought vs Strike Carrier debate all together lol
Well when i made that statement i didnt mean it as a tatical arguement, altho i do think that, with an equal number of defending fighters and an equal enemy force, the Cerb can defend herself much better then the midway could, but what i was refering to was the actual escort missions you fly in the game, i for one, always have an easier time protecting the Cerb then i do the Midway.
I'd have to go with the Victory. She wasn't the best carrier in confeds service, but she got the job done. I think the Victory went very well with the general theme of WCIII. Here you had this "second rate" called to the front lines as the confederation was still struggling against the kilrathi. it really helped to convey the sense of desperation on the side of the confederation in that game.
Phillip Tanaka
Swabbie
Banned
Yeah. They threw in as many hooks like this as they could. Like notice Blair's beard.
Originally posted by Wedge009
Wow, someone likes Armada's Lexington?
(Not again.) The Midway is a carrier, it engages enemies with its complement of fighters, not turrets. The lasers are for point defence against torpedoes and fighters, and remember, even though they weren't implemented in the game, the Midway is still supposed to have ion cannons for capship fights.
Well, Tachyons have longer range and move faster than lasers, therefore would be better Point Defence.
