F-103 Excalibur Model

Discussion in 'Fan Projects & Editing' started by Adm_maverick, Aug 28, 2015.

  1. Adm_maverick

    Adm_maverick Rear Admiral

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    So... not exactly an update per say, but still connected to the Excalibur project. So I was watching Bandit LOAF's 25th anniversary live stream and seeing the old school game animation got me motivated to look at some of the other fighters from the series. So... not totally sure I'll work on these other fighters, but I did line art interpretations of the Hornet and the Dralthi V from Wing Commander 3 and 4 and have them scaled to the Excalibur. At least... I think I do anyway. The Excalibur, which in game is supposed to be 32 meters long, looks a little small compared to the Hornet which is supposed to be 20 meters long and the Dralthi which is supposed to be 31 meters in length. Now there's a couple notes to that statement. First, the Hornet's length is stated as being 20 meters. I took that to mean the over all length of the body, not the laser canons. So I measured from the tip of the nose to the back of the wing sections that go back beyond the engine compartment. The second note is with the Dralthi. The in-universe information gives the Dralthi and over all length of 31 meters. I'm assuming that refers to the longest point between the wings... because if it's 31 meters for like the engine compartment... then the Dralthi was never a medium fighter and would utterly dwarf the Long Bow bomber. Still, there they are:

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2017
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  2. st3lt3k

    st3lt3k Rear Admiral

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    Impressive work!

    I'm no expert but I think the Hornet's 20m length would include the lasers.

    I've seen some WW2 era aircraft in museums and noted how small the cockpits were. They were not much wider than the pilot's shoulder width. Looking specifically at the cockpits of your scale interpretation, it seems to me that Excalibur's is smaller and narrower than the Hornet's. I would expect the opposite to be true.
     
  3. Whiplash

    Whiplash Captain

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    Agreed, that Hornet is too big. Rescale with the weapons included, I think. It looks good though!
     
  4. st3lt3k

    st3lt3k Rear Admiral

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    This Hornet eject sequence provides some idea of the scale (maybe some artistic license was taken?)
    [​IMG]

    Artist Vulpes=Sapien http://vulpes-sapien.deviantart.com considered this problem and came up with these:
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Vulpes-Sapien's Wing Commander 1 Art:
    http://vulpes-sapien.deviantart.com/art/WC1-Confed-Fighters-466609574

    Vulpes-Sapien's Wing Commander 2 Art:
    http://vulpes-sapien.deviantart.com/art/Wing-Commander-2-Fighters-477418588

    Vulpes-Sapien's Wing Commander 3 Art:
    http://vulpes-sapien.deviantart.com/art/Confed-Fighters-407541875
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 8, 2017
  5. Adm_maverick

    Adm_maverick Rear Admiral

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    Yeah that looks much more the correct size. So important note, sizes include stuff like the massively long laser cannons. Also, Raptor. Just because.
    [​IMG]

    Also as an aside, when I was looking for reference shots I ran across a re-design of the Salthi. Well it's labeled as a redesign but honestly I'm just calling it a re-interpretation of details that couldn't be seen in the original game. I'm somewhat tempted to do a model based on this design. If anyone knows the artist please let me know so I can contact them.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2017
  6. Adm_maverick

    Adm_maverick Rear Admiral

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    YIKES st3lt3k! That is quit an info dump. Wow. Thanks. Will need to process it some though.
     
  7. st3lt3k

    st3lt3k Rear Admiral

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    Great!

    I like Vulpes-Sapien's idea of trying to standardize off a person seated in a chair. I do think that the seat would be less upright/much more reclined (maybe he went for immersion and used his computer setup?). I think that his assessments are a little on the small side.

    Lengths of some "small" military aircraft:
    A 4 Skyhawk = 12 meters
    F 5 Tiger = 14 meters
    F 16 = 15 meters
    Saab Gripen = 14 meters​

    Lengths of some "large" military aircraft:
    F15 = 19 meters
    Mig 25 = 20 meters
    F111 = 22 meters
    Su 34 = 23 meters​

    32 meters sounds long for the Excalibur (a B1 is 44.5 meters). Maybe "space meters" are used that are somehow different from today's meters?
     
  8. capi3101

    capi3101 Rear Admiral

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    Could be that you need bulkier equipment to power an ion engine to give sufficient, practical levels of thrust...

    Y'all should also consider that the average Kilrathi is ostensibly quite a good deal larger than the average human being. It'd make sense that their craft would be comparably larger for the roles they were designed to undertake.
    That said, when I was doing WCRPG, I did re-interpret most of the given canonical craft lengths for Kilrath ships to mean their wingspan as opposed to their fore-to-aft length, because you're right: given the proportions of those craft, they'd be friggin' huge otherwise. Me, I did that so that I wouldn't have to adjust the system's craft construction rules (again)...
     
  9. Adm_maverick

    Adm_maverick Rear Admiral

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    I think comparing the cockpit sizes to the pilots is a good fail safe. As an example, I up-scaled the Dralthi image so that the longest part of the main body not counting the wings was 31 meters in length.
    [​IMG]

    First off at that size the Dralthi, what is classified as a medium class fighter and mounting 2 Meson Guns, a Partical gun and 4 missiles, utterly dwarfs the Excalibur (A heavy fighter mounting 3 times the missile load out and twice the fire power) AND the Raptor a heavy fighter that like the Excalibur completely outclasses the Dralthi in terms of fire power. At that size and scale... I would expect the Dralthi to mounting like 16 missiles with 2 Plasma cannons and 4 Neutron Guns or something comparable.

    as a further example, look at the sizes of the cockpits.
    [​IMG]

    understand that each of that gray boxes is scaled to be 1 square meter. So that makes the Dralthi cockpit 3.5 meters wide (11 and a half feet). Granted Kilrathi are larger then humans. Assuming that the Emperor, Thrakath, Melek, and Hallas are all typical of Kilrathi physique they are around 8-9 feet tall and weigh in the neighborhood of 400-600 pounds. They are most certainly not 10 feet wide and unless they use some sort of full motion virtual reality mapping system to pilot their ships where they need a spherical area of 6 feet in all directions to permit full motion movement (unlikely since Hobbes was able to adapt to piloting Terran fighters, and in Secret Missions there is that mission where you pilot a Gratha), there is just no way I can imagine the Dralthi's Cockpit space being 11 feet wide. There are some 2 seater transport choppers who's cockpits aren't that wide.
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2017
  10. capi3101

    capi3101 Rear Admiral

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    They probably had to put the mini-fridge and sandbox in there somewhere...
     
  11. Adm_maverick

    Adm_maverick Rear Admiral

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    If you messure to outside of the compartment holding the cockpit, the number can go as high as 22 feet wide. I've lived in a couple apartments that weren't that big.
     
  12. st3lt3k

    st3lt3k Rear Admiral

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    Yes, and maybe the Excalibur has different equipment in other systems like sensors, avionics, and particularly life support that needs more space.

    Here's a size comparison between a 10.75 door (3.3 meter) 660 pound (300 kg) Siberian Tiger and a 6 foot (2 meter) man from http://animals.nationalgeographic.com/animals/mammals/siberian-tiger/
    [​IMG]
     
  13. st3lt3k

    st3lt3k Rear Admiral

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    These sizes look more plausible to me, well done!
    [​IMG]
     
  14. Adm_maverick

    Adm_maverick Rear Admiral

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    Not exactly related to the project in this thread but somewhat connected to it. I'll be doing a live stream session friday the 2nd starting at 7pm EST where I'll be working on a paper-hammer if anyone is interested in joining me.
     
  15. Adm_maverick

    Adm_maverick Rear Admiral

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    Hey Wing Commander fans! I know it's been a while since I talked about this project, but now I am. The short version is I am going to be returning to working on it. The longer version is that you can join me as I will be working on it during my next live stream. The live stream will be Sunday March 19th starting at 5pm EST. You can get to the website by going to twitch.tv/resurrectedhobbyist, or simply by clicking on the ad below. Hope to see you all there!
    excalibur-video sized.png
     
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  16. Adm_maverick

    Adm_maverick Rear Admiral

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    Yes I know I just quoted myself. I'm preparing to get online for the live stream that quote mentions. If you'd like to join me, just log in with Twitch.tv and go to Resurrected Hobbyist. If you'd rather just the build shown and not talk with me, then just click on this link.
     
  17. Adm_maverick

    Adm_maverick Rear Admiral

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    So after 6 hours, here is where the Excalibur mock up version 3.0 stands:
    [​IMG]

    Over all, I'll call this a win. 6 hours of work, starting from nothing physical to this? Yeah.

    [​IMG]
    Using foam board for the main body helped to speed things up a lot.

    [​IMG]
    Previously the mock ups had had sharp apexes at the sides of the cockpit. With foam board in there I could found them out a bit more like how the in-universe images appear. The points will be there after I build the cockpit simply because it's kind of difficult to round out cardboard. Regardless when I get to the styrene version, I'll be able to round out the corners.

    [​IMG]
    I'm recording a lot of measurements directly on the mock up once again.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2017
  18. Whiplash

    Whiplash Captain

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    Great to see you've gotten back to this! So foam board plus cardboard?
     
  19. Adm_maverick

    Adm_maverick Rear Admiral

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    For this mockup, yes.
     
  20. Whiplash

    Whiplash Captain

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    So this is just a mockup? I assume you're planning a subsequent build with different materials then?
     

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