Escort carriers...

[brynn]

I'm thinking of writting some fan-fiction... I plan on writting about an escort carrier.. something a little smaller to handle than Confederation class ( much as i like 'em) .. I was thinking maybe about an Exeter class.

But this is where I need some expert help... would an Exeter fight for post-wc2 era, for the stikes just before the False peace and the Battle of Earth.. what kind of load-out (fighter wise) would it have?

What about the TCS Tarawa.. not read the books, but can see in the encyclopedia it is a converted transport do we know anything about the type of transport?

What of the TCS Khorsan or the TCS Egnima? are they too converted transports, do we know what construction yards they took out and where? Could I use one of these carriers?

Any info... load outs of fighters, ship technology, that I'll need to remember would be a help. If I remember rightly, WC2 era, aren't capital ships invulnrable to fighter's guns and only the torps on a broadsword can bring 'em down?

Also, what kind of Kilrathi ships would I be matching up against, what is out of it's league, what could the carrier and the fighters utterly crush?

I appreciate I'm asking for a lot of info, and this is all pretty non-specfic stuff. While I'm not worried about being 100% accurate, keeping it reasonably so would be nice for me.

All help, guidance and info would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers.

 

[Ijuin]

For destroyers, the fighter loadout is pretty much limited to Super Ferrets and Epees--Epees can carry torpedoes, but are slowed down enough by them that they need an escort of non-torp-carrying fighters. A destroyer will be limited to a single squadron (ten to twelve) of these light fighters.

A Waterloo or similar type of cruiser can carry two squardons--one of Super Ferrets and Epees, and one of Sabre-D's (the three-man bomber varient made for use on cruisers or escort carriers) or Crossbows.

Escort carriers such as the Tarawa can carry three to four squadrons, and they can carry any WC2 Confed fighters except the Broadsword (I would advise not using Morningstars unless this is a special ops vessel).

In a straight-up battle, an Exeter or Gilgamesh class destroyer and its fighters could take down one or two Ralari or Ralathra destroyers, but would be iffy against a Fralthi or Fralathra (which each carry up to 30 fighters), and would be destroyed by anything heavier.

A Waterloo would be able to take on a Fralthi or Fralathra, but would be risking destruction against a fleet carrier.

An escort carrier would still be unable to take on a carrier group, but probably stands an even chance against anything lighter than a Bhantkara carrier if they are fighting one-on-one without destroyers for escort. Don't even think of trying to take on a Hakaga with anything less than a Concordia-class carrier with destroyer escorts.

 

[ChrisReid]

You're asking some broad questions about some things that don't have definite answers. I'd recommend just posting an outline for what you want to do based on things you think should be right, and we can pick that apart and provide alternatives when things are weird.

 

[brynn]

Thanks Ljuin, that's pretty much precisely the kind of info I was looking for. Thanks so much for your time in answering my questions, I appreciate they were pretty broad and so not easy to just give quick answers.

The waterloo class sounds like just what I'm looking for. Is the encyclopedia all we know about them? If not is there a book or somewhere I could learn more about the class... how many launch bays (I'm guessing from the sprite, 2) is the hanger bay seperate from the launch bay (I saw on one of the ships they are the same area and as such a major vulnrability)?

Don't worry I'll be keeping well away from morningstars, or some newly invented superweapon for my story.

My ship and characters may take on a cruiser or two but they aren't about to win the war single-handedly. They'll be (in terms of military action) run of the mill. My job is to turn those seemingly normal feats into a gripping, exciting life and death story. Full of characters with dangerous flaws and unexpected problems. After all, if they are all clean cut hero types, where's the fun?

Any ideas on systems I could go play in, without tripping up all over someone else's story?

And just what is the difference between the different types of Jump points? (normal, pulsar, charybdis, etc)

ChrisReid, I know I'm asking a lot of broad questions that aren't just "yes" or "no", but at the moment, I'm looking for what the scope of my story can be, before I go down the path of "oh I want to write about a super secret top gun pilot who flies a sabre off the TCS Concordia and kills all the kilrathi in the xxxx system". I'm only familiar with the games (and only vaguely so, having not played them in some years) so I've no idea how much or little detail the books give out as to fleet dispositions, who is operating where, kilrathi losses, etc.

Think of this more as brain storming, with me getting ideas from people who know a LOT more about this universe than me.

As for picking my stuff apart, oh don't worry, once I have concrete stories, plots and places to go visit, I'll run them by here to make sure I'm not making some huge continuity error or such. Of course, all assuming you lovely folks will spare your free time and knowledge to help me out in writing a half-decent fan-fic.

 

[Sarty]

If you are going to go with destroyer, I'd go with the Gilgamesh. IIRC, the Exeter class was later modified to carry fighters, while the Gilgamesh class was made with the ability to mount a flight deck already incorporated. There are also countless numbers of destroyers so just making your own vessel wouldn't be against any continuity IMO. I personally would go with the escort carrier. They have a certain appeal to me, being light and quick, but still true to what Wing Commander is centered around, carrier operations. Also, I don't think we know all the ships of the class that were made. Like Standoff's TCS Firekka, you could make an escort carrier and not contradict anything.

 

[Eder]

I think it's the other way around... we know that at least some Exeters can carry fighters, but we've never seen any Gilgameshes carrying fighters.

 

[Quarto]

Yep. There are no canon sources that give the Gilgameshes any fighter-carrying capacity.

 

[ChrisReid]

And just what is the difference between the different types of Jump points? (normal, pulsar, charybdis, etc)

ChrisReid, I know I'm asking a lot of broad questions that aren't just "yes" or "no", but at the moment, I'm looking for what the scope of my story can be, before I go down the path of "oh I want to write about a super secret top gun pilot who flies a sabre off the TCS Concordia and kills all the kilrathi in the xxxx system". I'm only familiar with the games (and only vaguely so, having not played them in some years) so I've no idea how much or little detail the books give out as to fleet dispositions, who is operating where, kilrathi losses, etc.

Yeah, kind of what I was thinking is that continuity can almost be something that you sprinkle on as your story develops. As you start writing, you don't even need to know what kind of ship you're on. You could let the story pick what ship best fits when the time to name it arises. You should also read our Jump FAQ https://www.wcnews.com/articles/jumpfaq.shtml

 

[Bandit LOAF]

I'm thinking of writting some fan-fiction... I plan on writting about an escort carrier.. something a little smaller to handle than Confederation class ( much as i like 'em) .. I was thinking maybe about an Exeter class.

But this is where I need some expert help... would an Exeter fight for post-wc2 era, for the stikes just before the False peace and the Battle of Earth.. what kind of load-out (fighter wise) would it have?

I guess the real issue here is that this is pretty much the basis for End Run -- the introduction of Escort Carriers (as an analogue for the escort carriers that the United States Navy put into service later in World War 2).

That's not to say that writing a story about an escort carrier isn't a good idea - in fact, I think it's a great idea in that it shows a lot of restraint (writing about an amazing super-dreadnaught is the easy way to go). The real issue is that you're limited to the background End Run (and later novels) create about CVEs because their conceit is that escorts are a new idea that's just showing up in mid-2667.

That background is, basically, that the Confederation converted nine heavy transports into the very first CVEs following Wing Commander 2, and then had great success using them to raid behind enemy lines. These ships have all been named and several of their stories are told in the novels - so you'd want to exercise caution before dealing with the original set of carriers.

More open to fiction: following the original success, the Confederation began building dedicated escort carriers, which show up (at the very least) by 2669 (during Wing Commander 3).

What about the TCS Tarawa.. not read the books, but can see in the encyclopedia it is a converted transport do we know anything about the type of transport?

The Tarawa (CVE-8) is one of the original set of heavy transport conversions. She's the 'star' ship of the novels, the proverbial little-ship-that-could. We don't know anything about the transports themselves, but we do have a good idea of armament and air wing strength for the Tarawa and her sisterships.

What of the TCS Khorsan or the TCS Egnima? are they too converted transports, do we know what construction yards they took out and where? Could I use one of these carriers?

We don't completely know. There's two schools of thoughts -- either the Enigma and the Khorsan are Tarawa-style CVEs or they're the second class (Eagle-style). There are good arguments either way:

- Counting Enigma and Khorsan, we'd know *ten* names for the nine carriers (thanks to a years-later False Colors retcon)... and all the others are named for amphibious battles on Earth. Enigma and Khorsan stick out, implying that they could be the different class...

- On the other hand, in 1994 when Fleet Action was written, the Eagle-type CVEs didn't exist yet in the creative sense. When Dr. Forstchen wrote Fleet Action he was *probably* thinking of them as part of the original set. (That said, their names still don't fit - while it's cool that the attempt is to include futuristic battles in the name scheme, Enigma and Khorsan don't fit the amphibious-battle requirement. (Khorsan may, only loosely, since the planet was re-enforced *after* a Kilrathi invasion).)

Anyway, my preference is to consider them to be Enigma-type ships, indicating that the 'ground up' CVEs entered service in 2668 before the Battle of Earth. The Enigma-type doesn't have any solid specifications behind it - all we know is that the TCS Enigma delivered the first Excalibur squadron to the TCS Victory in WC3.

(To answer your earlier question about the Exeter-class, they carry eighteen light/medium fighters -- they'd almost certainly still be in service in WC2.)

Any info... load outs of fighters, ship technology, that I'll need to remember would be a help. If I remember rightly, WC2 era, aren't capital ships invulnrable to fighter's guns and only the torps on a broadsword can bring 'em down?

Since your story would be set between WC2 and WC3, you could really go either way - or a mix, showing how one era evolved into another. Larger ships like carriers and dreadnaughts would certainly require torpedo runs.

 

[Eder]

- Counting Enigma and Khorsan, we'd know *ten* names for the nine carriers (thanks to a years-later False Colors retcon)... and all the others are named for amphibious battles on Earth. Enigma and Khorsan stick out, implying that they could be the different class...

Just to clarify: the novels give us 10 names for CVEs, but not for a specific class of CVEs (so it's no contradiction, it just means that at least one of the named CVEs is *not* a Tarawa-type - since there are only 9 Tarawa-type CVEs).

Khorsan and Enigma are the only names that stand out from the other 8 names - this could mean that these two ships belong to the new class, while the other 8 ships belong to the old class (in this case, one ship of the old class would have been left unnamed and not mentioned anywhere).

The Enigma-type doesn't have any solid specifications behind it - all we know is that the TCS Enigma delivered the first Excalibur squadron to the TCS Victory in WC3.

You mean TCS Eagle?

 

[Bandit LOAF]

You mean TCS Eagle?

Gack, sorry - I did mean TCS Eagle. I've been away from Wing Commander for a few days and I think my brain is melting.

The waterloo class sounds like just what I'm looking for. Is the encyclopedia all we know about them? If not is there a book or somewhere I could learn more about the class... how many launch bays (I'm guessing from the sprite, 2) is the hanger bay seperate from the launch bay (I saw on one of the ships they are the same area and as such a major vulnrability)?

A Waterloo-class cruiser, the TCS Gettysburg, is the central figure in Special Operations 1, the first Wing Commander 2 addon. Other than that they're referenced only in passing.

We know that they entered service at some point before 2654, as Ralgha was said to have destroyed one (the TCS Leningrad) while in command of the Ras Nik'hra. Everything else we see about them is in the Wing Commander 2 'era'.

Presumably due to their extensive fighter capacity (forty light/medium fighters), Waterloo's are rarer than the average cruiser. In Wing Commander II the TCS Agincourt is considered a very important naval asset (second only to the Concordia in that game). In End Run, the Gettysburg is treated as being as important as the fleet carriers which take part in Operation Backlash. (Two other Waterloo's have been mentioned - the prison ship Alcatraz and the Centurion, where Jazz Colson was tried.)

Don't worry I'll be keeping well away from morningstars, or some newly invented superweapon for my story.

While Morningstar's probably wouldn't be part of a cruiser's complement, they're not the sacred fighters this thread has made them out to be - the Academy manual calls them the Confederation's "premiere capital ship destroyer" in the post-WC2 era.

 

[Moonsword]

Loaf, how do we know the Leningrad is Waterloo-class rather than a WC2-era light cruiser or an Achilles?

 

[Quarto]

They specifically say it was a Waterloo-class ship.

(or rather, they specifically say that the Waterloo-class ship in question was called the Leningrad, because Ralgha only found out five years later that it was the Leningrad... and that five years reference means that the latest possible date for the introduction of the Waterloo-class would be 2650)

 

[Edfilho]

Gack, sorry - I did mean TCS Eagle. I've been away from Wing Commander for a few days and I think my brain is melting.

You should always have a GBA with WCPA close to you, for emergencies, then.