Dragon Vs Vampire

Triple-B

Rear Admiral
I was just thinking of what ship might be superior. the dragon does not need fuel and it has a cloaking device. It cannons are quite a punch.

the vampire is versatile und really quick fighter with a heavy missile loadout.

which fighter do you concern superior and why does confed not use them in the neph war? what happened with the rest of the dragons after wc 4? I believe confed did not scap them, what do you think?
 
I was just thinking of what ship might be superior. the dragon does not need fuel and it has a cloaking device. It cannons are quite a punch.

the vampire is versatile und really quick fighter with a heavy missile loadout.

which fighter do you concern superior and why does confed not use them in the neph war? what happened with the rest of the dragons after wc 4? I believe confed did not scap them, what do you think?

Do we know for sure that the Vampire doesn't have a cloaking device? We know the Piranha has one.
 
I don't think we can say they didn't use the Lances in the Nephilim was simply because we don't see it happen in Prophecy and Secret ops. They may or may not have had a limited production but you can be sure that, if they're resurrecting all kinds of decommissioned ships, whatever fancy fighters might happen to be sitting in various hangars aren't going to be sitting around kept out of the action because of the price tag or nostalgia factor.
 
If you're comparing the two fighters, then Vampire easily wins. The Dragon can take two missile hits tops but the Vampire will still be flying. In terms of firepower, the Vamp can get more shots off. Last but not least, the Vampire has more agility so why would anybody want a Dragon unless it has a more effective Mace like in WC2?
 
The stock Tigershark has most of the attributes of the Dragon already... give it uprated shields and a couple of light torpedos under the wings and you would have a viable replacement for fleet combat (especially given that you could carry at least four, perhaps as many as 12 Tigersharks in the same space a Dragon would use).

The Dragon was designed as a raider, and it shows. It's got a little of everything except the maneuverability to survive a modern fleet engagement... and there's not a huge call for old-style raiding against the Nephilim given that their "weak" installations still house dozens of fighters. IIRC the older (war era) torpedos had a different type of warhead with much greater damage than peacetime varieties - perhaps the Dragon would be useful as a much more survivable delivery platform than the Longbow.
 
I don't think we can say they didn't use the Lances in the Nephilim was simply because we don't see it happen in Prophecy and Secret ops. They may or may not have had a limited production but you can be sure that, if they're resurrecting all kinds of decommissioned ships, whatever fancy fighters might happen to be sitting in various hangars aren't going to be sitting around kept out of the action because of the price tag or nostalgia factor.

I doubt that they would recommission small amounts of fighters that they probably had hardly any spareparts lying around. Even if they did, its a logistical nightmare to go into battle with a ragtag arsenal of a dozen different fighters on a carrier. In a battle of earth scenario probably, but in a war several systems away I doubt it, its much more efficient to deliver production line units than some super fighters that had been lying around that you cant replace or repair.
 
Do we know for sure that the Vampire doesn't have a cloaking device? We know the Piranha has one.

The Vampire was built after the Piranha, I believe it would make sense to drop the cloaking device, due to its ineffectiveness concerning the nephs.
 
The Vampire was built after the Piranha, I believe it would make sense to drop the cloaking device, due to its ineffectiveness concerning the nephs.

The Piranha is probably a little older than the Vampire (it is designated F-106 to the Vampire's F-109), but given the ICIS manual's claims that the Prophecy fighters are all built around a new unified (role-oriented) doctrine for fighters they're probably both parts of the same development initiative.

It's NOT brand new in Prophecy, though--we just see it later because Midway's third squadron hadn't arrived yet at the start of the game (both fighters may have already been around for as long as several years). There also isn't time to have the design changed by the Nephilim, either, since Prophecy's story takes place over the course of only one month (even the B and the S variants seen in Secret Ops are probably the result of design changes that entered the pipeline long before the Nephilim showed up).

I don't think we can say they didn't use the Lances in the Nephilim was simply because we don't see it happen in Prophecy and Secret ops. They may or may not have had a limited production but you can be sure that, if they're resurrecting all kinds of decommissioned ships, whatever fancy fighters might happen to be sitting in various hangars aren't going to be sitting around kept out of the action because of the price tag or nostalgia factor.

This leads to two things I've always wondered about the Dragon/Lance:

- How does it (or: does it?) tie in with the 'premeditated' fighter force Confed is putting into place circa Wing Commander Prophecy? It's worth noting that the designation, at least, puts it in the dead series of Wing Commander's "century series": F-105 Tigershark, F-106 Piranha, F-107 Lance, F-108 Panther, F-109 Vampire, F-110 Wasp. I'm thinking these ships were all on the drawing board at the same time.

- Is there a 'normal' version of the fighter? It's possible the "Black Lance" is like the 'Black' ships in Wing Commander Secret Ops... and that there may be an ordinary production model out there somewhere, too. Ie, maybe we flew the F-107S Black Lance and there's also an F-107A Lance that's... 'less', I guess (like how Casey flew the F-110S Black Wasp in Secret Ops versus the regular one that ordinary pilots are using at the same time... the name and concept certainly fit).

I doubt that they would recommission small amounts of fighters that they probably had hardly any spareparts lying around. Even if they did, its a logistical nightmare to go into battle with a ragtag arsenal of a dozen different fighters on a carrier. In a battle of earth scenario probably, but in a war several systems away I doubt it, its much more efficient to deliver production line units than some super fighters that had been lying around that you cant replace or repair.

I believe he's referring to the Broadswords in Wing Commander Arena rather than some kind of ragtag force. The idea was that the Confederation had boneyards full of war surplus Broadswords which could be brought online quickly when the Nephilim invaded... and so production of Broadsword parts and then updated Broadswords resumed to support that force.
 
It's worth noting that during the Battle of Britain in 1940, the Royal Air Force enlisted any pilots it could find in the extensive commonwealth colonies, this in addition to displaced Polish squadrons being shifted here, there were more than a dozen pilot nationalities involved the fight. In the dramatisation, one instructor informs foreign recruits to the 'rag tag' squadron that the RAF must not become a 'flying circus'.

With a number of fighters needing to be repaired quickly and under pressure, dozens lost on a daily basis and aircraft being reigned in from colonials such as Canada, the setup was pretty much 'ragtag' but efficient in what it eventually achieved. It's about co-ordinating the available fighters and resources in the right way. I think there were some USAF planes loaned along with their pilots, not to mention the hundreds of American personell later stationed here for the U.S. bombing campaign.
 
I personally Hate the vampire, but it has more to do with the way prophecy handles guns (the point where vampire's 4 tachs do the same DPS as Panther's 2, but fire once per gun energy) than fighter itself.
I think in dogfight vamp will win due to it's superior manouvrability.

Oh and am I the only one to see that this thread's name sounds like a C-movie title?
 
Back
Top