Presto and KHTML are two other layout engines you might want to consider. Although I'll grant that Trident, Gecko and WebKit will cover the vast majority of the Internet population, you can't really say that Gecko and WebKit cover 'anything but Internet Explorer'.
Even if you choose to only check Trident, Gecko and WebKit, that's still a lot of work.
Fair; you're absolutely right that mozilla and webkit isn't enough. I can look into getting a presto and khtml-based browser as well and see which switches are necessary in the CSS. You're also correct that some of the things I'm using right now are CSS3, meaning they aren't finalized (specifically the gradients and rounded corners).
That said, at the moment, I am simply not going to bother making this work in IE. Here are the current 'system requirements' to play the automated WCTO:
- Possibly Cookies (for session-to-session login memory, not yet in use)
- NOT using IE
Considering I'm not asking you to buy any new hardware or awesome graphics cards, I think 'NOT IE' is not unreasonable for the WC community. Maybe once I'm done all the php coding, I can look into getting everything also working in IE with its weird 'filters:'.
Re the browser issue: I'm currently running Firefox 3.6.7. So the explanation lies in the fact that you have to have the font installed on your system... I've installed Lady Ice, but not Space Gothic, which is why it's messing things up here. I'm attaching a screenshot for you to see what I mean. (Lady Ice is much more narrow than the rest, so this is probably why it's screwing up the layout.)
I noticed that - in Jason_Ryock's screens as well (thanks for your feedback!) - the ship name, ship class and weapon loadout are in Times, while the rest of the stuff seems to be in Verdana. (That's why I assumed you were drawing all the Times parts from variables.)
This is definitely an issue. I put in the fonts you used previously, but then I don't actually have said fonts, and so I did the formatting for the other fonts, in truth. I suspect the screenshots you see out there are because others are seeing it the way I am. For the time being, I've now removed the references to 'space gothic' and 'lady ice' so that everyone sees it how I do.
I honestly don't care that much about things like fonts, so if you guys can, as a collective community pick a few "standard" fonts that "everyone is likely to have" I can get the layout to work for those fonts in particular, but as I stated at the outset, CSS is *not* my forte, in fact, I'm learning most of that side as I go. The php/mysql/etc. is where my own skillset lies, web-wise. If anyone else who has time and better CSS skills wants to jump in, I'd be happy to work with them.
Generally speaking, I liked the Game 005 info size much, much more, but I don't want to lose the "3D" ship pics either. So maybe we can leave the general font size the way it is (and reduce the size for ship name, class and player name, along with a smaller Confed/Kilrathi logo) and just use the available space more efficiently. I think I'll try different layouts and send them your way asap.
Sounds good. I can size-down the 3D picts, or we could make *those* part of the background, or any number of things. that said, once I'm done prototyping all the windows I need, I plan to push forward and finish phase 3, and then move onto the harder (but more interesting to me) phase 4. I would, in such a case, come back and revisit these windows later. (For that matter, I can release all the available divs/classes currently in use here on the forum, and you guys can take a cut at laying it out differently. As long as the core divs don't change and only the CSS, the php doing the output won't care and I wouldn't need to do a code change)
By the way, would it be better to have the gradient background as a png?
Um, maybe... I could use a fixed, correct-sized background image, but then if we wanted to change the window in the future, we'd need to change the image. I'd prefer to keep it as much done on-the-fly as we can.
Another thought: Since we're getting a lot of links in this thread, why don't you create a thread where you collect them all? At least those you want to keep, like the ship entry form and the most recent demos. I could just sticky it then.
Um, sure. I'll do that in a few minutes, with the current phase progress and all the demos.
It looks terrible in IE, which I am not surprised by. IE apparently has issues rendering PNG's properly, not sure if you're using those or not. I'm using IE 8, 64-bit on a Win7 OS just so you know.
It's important to remember when developing browsers that IE and Microsoft by extension refuse to adopt the web standards. So code that works perfectly and looks perfectly fine in every other browser on the market just isn't going to work in IE. It's unfortunate, and frustrating.
Yep, I'm well aware. I hate to sound a bit elitish, but I have honestly *never* used IE. I used Netscape Navigator back in version 2 or so, and have progressed since. Anytime I've tried IE, I've been disappointed or annoyed. At the moment, without switching over to something completely browser neutral like flash (which I have no skill in whatsoever, and no one with such skill has stepped forward to do this for Ironduke) we're just going to absolutely ignore IE for the time being. If this is a serious problem for you guys, as I suggested above, I can come back and try to make it also IE compliant later. (I've had to do that before, using fixed icons for rounded corners, using all the IE crazy 'filters:' etc. for special effects... but it is a pain). I will, however, try to look into making sure it does run in Opera and Safari as I expect it to, in addition to Groove and Firefox.
now in a completely unrelated note, the window-demo
has been updated with my first cut at the 'Movement-Phase Order Submission Window'. It doesn't actually do anything, but it should be fully navigatable. I've shown it with the terran colour scheme.