Could the vesuvius have made a difference?

Re: Small History Lesson...

Originally posted by OriginalPhoenix
Actually, the Me-262 "Swabble" was plenty ready in time. However, in one of Hitler's major goofs (often cosidered one of his top 3 screw-ups of WWII), he declared the plane be deployed as a quick-strike BOMBER, to go with his terror weapon train of thought. Hermann Goering and other high-ranking Luftwaffe officials tried exhaustively to get Hitler to use the fighter as intended -- as a defensive bomber-destroyer for the Third Reich -- but were unsuccessful.

By the time Hitler realized his mistake, Allied bombers had destroyed much of the industry needed to produce the fighter, and the Allied fighters had developed methods to cope with the Me-262. [/B]
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This is something that is stated often, but it is not quite correct that it was Hitlers fault that the ME262 was delayed. The worst problem of the 262 were the engines. It took quite some time until the Jet engines were reliable enough (in the beginning they failed very often). By the time the problems were solved, everything was already hopeless due to the bombarments of the allies.
 
Re: Re: Small History Lesson...

Originally posted by Sonntag
Originally posted by OriginalPhoenix
Actually, the Me-262 "Swabble" was plenty ready in time. However, in one of Hitler's major goofs (often cosidered one of his top 3 screw-ups of WWII), he declared the plane be deployed as a quick-strike BOMBER, to go with his terror weapon train of thought. Hermann Goering and other high-ranking Luftwaffe officials tried exhaustively to get Hitler to use the fighter as intended -- as a defensive bomber-destroyer for the Third Reich -- but were unsuccessful.

By the time Hitler realized his mistake, Allied bombers had destroyed much of the industry needed to produce the fighter, and the Allied fighters had developed methods to cope with the Me-262.
Click to expand...

This is something that is stated often, but it is not quite correct that it was Hitlers fault that the ME262 was delayed. The worst problem of the 262 were the engines. It took quite some time until the Jet engines were reliable enough (in the beginning they failed very often). By the time the problems were solved, everything was already hopeless due to the bombarments of the allies. [/B]
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Sorry, but my comments are absolutely correct. While it is true that the engines were problematic initially, those problems were resolved in plenty of time such that the Me-262 could have been a scourge to the Allied bombing campaign. The 262 was completely and reliably operational by early spring 1944 -- when Germany still had a realistic chance of turning things around. But because of Hitlers guffaw, the Me-262 didn't really begin regular defense missions until the fall, by which time it was, indeed, too late.

Now, the rocket engine of the Me-163 "Komet" is another matter entirely, and indeed did plague the fighters operations throughout its brief usage.

[Edited by OriginalPhoenix on 04-27-2001 at 13:23]
 
Re: Re: Re: Small History Lesson...

Originally posted by OriginalPhoenix
[Sorry, but my comments are absolutely correct. While it is true that the engines were problematic initially, those problems were resolved in plenty of time such that the Me-262 could have been a scourge to the Allied bombing campaign. The 262 was completely and reliably operational by early spring 1944 -- when Germany still had a realistic chance of turning things around. But because of Hitlers guffaw, the Me-262 didn't really begin regular defense missions until the fall, by which time it was, indeed, too late.

Now, the rocket engine of the Me-163 "Komet" is another matter entirely, and indeed did plague the fighters operations throughout its brief usage.

[Edited by OriginalPhoenix on 04-27-2001 at 13:23] [/B]
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Well honestly I wouldn't really consider that Germany had a realistic chance to turn things around in early 1944, as the industrial capabilities already were reduced, the russian campaign went really bad, and the allies were gaining the clear air superiority. Whether the Me 262 would have changed that much, I don't know. Certainly it was much superior to anything else that time, but I really doubt that there were enough capable pilots left during that time of the war to really pose a threat for the bombers. And even though it is right that the engines worked better in 1944, jet engine technology was still something revolutionary, so there remained problems that could not be solved properly.
 
Originally posted by Bandit LOAF
The Vesuvii weren't even *begun* before the war ended -- they used a lot of captured Kilrathi technology in their design...
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oh, you got dates on the beginning of construction? because the war didn't have to end for the confed to get kilrathi tech. think about the concordias PTC
 
Originally posted by redwolf
Oh and I forgot to ask, what was the captured Kilrathi technology in the Vesuvius?
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I think it's something with structural stuff. In the novel, Blair says something along the lines of "It looks Kilrathi" and then "I didn't even know we could build something that big"

Tolywn replies that the Kilrathi technology was used after that.
 
According to Tolwyn, they borrowed from the design of the Hakagas in designing the Vesuvius...

... of course, we know this was *after* the war, because, to produce them, Tolwyn took the foundry ships that the outer worlds were using to rebuilt their industries with. (And he was the one who headed the committee that chose their specifications... which he couldn't do until 2672...).
 
Originally posted by Bandit LOAF
According to Tolwyn, they borrowed from the design of the Hakagas in designing the Vesuvius...

... of course, we know this was *after* the war, because, to produce them, Tolwyn took the foundry ships that the outer worlds were using to rebuilt their industries with. (And he was the one who headed the committee that chose their specifications... which he couldn't do until 2672...).
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ok.
 
Original phoenix, the ME-262 was called the Swallow not Swabble. Also wouldn't the vesuvii have been started during the war since it takes 5 years to make a carrier (according to ER) and WCIV is taking place only 4 years later(iirc)
 
If it takes 5 years to build such a vessel as the Vesuvius, when was the huge Axius superbase built and how long did it take?

RFB
 
Originally posted by RFBurns
If it takes 5 years to build such a vessel as the Vesuvius, when was the huge Axius superbase built and how long did it take?

RFB
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i still believe that it would take much longer to build somthing during peacetime. when theres no need to rush theres no need to pay the workers overtime. and more attention can be paid to quality.
 
Yeah but they arent just going to sit back and relax while they do it, take time off here and there. They have schedules and deadlines they need to meet. They can take a bit more time but not to much before it becomes wasteful of money and manpower.
 
it only takes a partial year to build something like the TCS Mistral Sea, doesn't it say like 100 days? I would imagine it would take far less for a Vesuvius
 
They started the Midway and the Mistreal Sea together, Midway got more attention at first, and then as they became closer to being completed they started the next ones.
 
So far just those two but they are following a naming convention like the Vesuvius which is named after volcanos i think, but im not sure what the Midway's is, famous naval battles?
 
Originally posted by Supdon3
Yeah but they arent just going to sit back and relax while they do it, take time off here and there. They have schedules and deadlines they need to meet. They can take a bit more time but not to much before it becomes wasteful of money and manpower.
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but not as much money is going toward getting it done quickly.
 
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