Concordia's Flight Deck

[Sylvester]

Given what we see of the Concordia's flight deck in WC2, does anyone think that the actual hanger deck is much bigger than that? It just seems that the area of space that the deck occupies in relation to the size of Concordia would make it impossible to store 120 fighters there. Is there a secondary deck beneath the flight deck that houses fighters when they are not being prepped, similar to the hanger on a modern day aircraft carrier?

 

[frostytheplebe]

Given what we see of the Concordia's flight deck in WC2, does anyone think that the actual hanger deck is much bigger than that? It just seems that the area of space that the deck occupies in relation to the size of Concordia would make it impossible to store 120 fighters there. Is there a secondary deck beneath the flight deck that houses fighters when they are not being prepped, similar to the hanger on a modern day aircraft carrier?

Take a look at the bay, it appears there there are six elevators that bring fighters up, the hanger deck where they store the fighters would be below that, which personally I believe to be huge given the size of the ship herself... plus is it not possible that either the fighters are unassembled or have their wings folded or something?

 

[ELTEE]

I don't really have any evidence to support this conclusion, save for the brief appearences the flight deck makes in WC2, but I have always thought the Concordia's flight deck appeared to be really inefficient. I can't imagine trying to land, rearm, and relaunch fighters at the pace required of wartime combat operations with that setup.

 

[Dundradal]

From the descriptions and visuals we have it seems that Confed carriers conduct flight ops much the same way the USN did during WWII. Fighters aren't stored in a separate hangar bay that differs from the flight deck. That doesn't mean carriers don't have a separate hangar, they very well may, but it seems for the most part fighters are kept in a deck park situation. They are armed, fueled and readied for launch on the flight deck.

The Kilrathi flight deck ops differ slightly (most of what I'm stating comes from FC where we get an amazing look at their flight ops). They do use a hangar for fighter storage (one for each bay on the Bhantkara) and fighters are only brought up when they are to be prepared for flight. It's slightly different from the IJN doctrine used during WWII, but I have little doubt that that's what Forstchen and Keith were aiming for in FC.

 

[Sylvester]

History aside, I would imagine there would have to be another deck. There is just no way that 120 fighters fit in that space.

 

[Dundradal]

History aside, I would imagine there would have to be another deck. There is just no way that 120 fighters fit in that space.

True, I was just pointing out what comes from the novels (ER and FC especially).

Even if the "racks" for fighters were stacked several high on all sides of the bay, it is hard to imagine there not being a separate storage area.

 

[Tigerhawk]

I haven't read FC, but in ER, the main lady of that story was, obviously, Tarawa. If I remember my book correctly, being an escort carrier converted from a transport hull, the racks above were there to save space for launches and landings, otherwise that was a hugely cramped hangar.

And during WWII (though my knowledge is rusty on the earlier carriers), the Essex-class carriers had hangar bays. Two elevators brought the planes up and down, one forward of the island superstructure and one aft, both in the middle of the flight deck. Since that time, all fleet carriers have had hangar bays for maintenance and otherwise to have a place to park the "hangar queens".

It would make perfect sense, then, that the Concordia and her sisters would have a separate, dedicated hangar bay for the same purpose.

 

[Dundradal]

I haven't read FC, but in ER, the main lady of that story was, obviously, Tarawa. If I remember my book correctly, being an escort carrier converted from a transport hull, the racks above were there to save space for launches and landings, otherwise that was a hugely cramped hangar.

From the description of Tarawa it doesn't sound like there were any racks for fighters. They were all stored in wingtip-to-wingtip style in the empty space.

If you are talking about the hooks they use to "hang" the Marines landing craft, those were never used for fighters.

And during WWII (though my knowledge is rusty on the earlier carriers), the Essex-class carriers had hangar bays. Two elevators brought the planes up and down, one forward of the island superstructure and one aft, both in the middle of the flight deck. Since that time, all fleet carriers have had hangar bays for maintenance and otherwise to have a place to park the "hangar queens".

Every US carrier had a hangar, even Langley CV-1, however early on it was decided (from the testing of flight deck ops done by Admiral Reeves) that utilizing what is called the "deck park" allowed for more aircraft to be carried then if they were all to be placed in the hangar.

Essex-class carriers actually have three elevators. The two you mentioned and one opposite the island structure that could fold up in order to fit through the Panama Canal.

US carriers didn't store aircraft in the hangar regularly, normally they were kept on the deck. The hangar was utilized for repair (like you stated) and sometimes for storage, although because of the size of the air groups the entire group actually couldn't fit in the hangars.

While this doesn't make sense for Concordia considering most of her flight deck is exposed to space. I brought up the other comparison because of the differences in USN and IJN carrier flight ops doctrine.

It would make perfect sense, then, that the Concordia and her sisters would have a separate, dedicated hangar bay for the same purpose.

It does make sense, but I just can't think of a situation where we are told about it (not that makes it not exist). Just judging from the novels I feel that Forstchen and Keith were certainly thinking about the differences in USN and IJN doctrine.

 

[Tigerhawk]

Ah, yes yes, you're right...the Marine LCs went up there. Probably getting near time where I have to pull ER out again.

Even today, the Nimitz-class carriers don't have room for every single aircraft in the hangar deck...or at least they didn't when I sailed on the Theodore Roosevelt. There's usually just not enough room down there.

 

[Dundradal]

Ah, yes yes, you're right...the Marine LCs went up there. Probably getting near time where I have to pull ER out again.

Even today, the Nimitz-class carriers don't have room for every single aircraft in the hangar deck...or at least they didn't when I sailed on the Theodore Roosevelt. There's usually just not enough room down there.

Yeah the USN has always been a fan of the deck park doctrine over storing aircraft in the hangar deck. The Nimitz class flight deck is specifically designed to allow most of the wing to be stored on deck while flight operations are ongoing. It allows for a faster flight cycle and in the case of attack/damage/fire/accident aircraft can easily be pushed over the side instead of being sitting powder kegs in the hangar deck.

 

[Tigerhawk]

Yeah the USN has always been a fan of the deck park doctrine over storing aircraft in the hangar deck. The Nimitz class flight deck is specifically designed to allow most of the wing to be stored on deck while flight operations are ongoing. It allows for a faster flight cycle and in the case of attack/damage/fire/accident aircraft can easily be pushed over the side instead of being sitting powder kegs in the hangar deck.

Ooooh, I know...they're pretty much the "rain or shine" doctrine that way, too. When we first sortied back in '93, we had to leave about a week early to get out of port when that "Storm of the Century" was churning its way over here. It was the first (and last) time I've ever felt a carrier rock and roll the way it did, and there are pictures in my cruise book of waves splashing up and over the flight deck, where about five F/A-18s were chocked and chained up forward...and a lot of those waves even cleared the tops of the Hornets.

And even when we had the (in)famous steel beach picnics, they crammed in pretty much every aircraft into the hangar that the could, but if memory serves some of my squadron's Seahawks were still topside.

 

[Dundradal]

Ooooh, I know...they're pretty much the "rain or shine" doctrine that way, too. When we first sortied back in '93, we had to leave about a week early to get out of port when that "Storm of the Century" was churning its way over here. It was the first (and last) time I've ever felt a carrier rock and roll the way it did, and there are pictures in my cruise book of waves splashing up and over the flight deck, where about five F/A-18s were chocked and chained up forward...and a lot of those waves even cleared the tops of the Hornets.

That's pretty intense. Sounds like you experienced some of the same things as the men with the 3rd Fleet when Halsey took them into not one, but two typhoons. The pictures of those carriers mangled flight decks is really incredible.

 

[frostytheplebe]

That's pretty intense. Sounds like you experienced some of the same things as the men with the 3rd Fleet when Halsey took them into not one, but two typhoons. The pictures of those carriers mangled flight decks is really incredible.

You see the ships and you never think anything could do that sort of damaged to a ship that big... natural anyway. Then mother nature gives you a hard smack of reality.

F/A-18s... aren't those the "Legacy" Hornets?

 

[ELTEE]

The older models are, as opposed to the super duper F22/Rafale/Grippen/Su-3X/Eurofighter etc butt-kickin' E/F Hornets.

I don't know why we bother. MiG-21 pwns all.

 

[frostytheplebe]

The older models are, as opposed to the super duper F22/Rafale/Grippen/Su-3X/Eurofighter etc butt-kickin' E/F Hornets.

I don't know why we bother. MiG-21 pwns all.

After so many years to still be in service. I agree. MiG-21s rock! Theres a beauty on the USS Intrepid in NY city. Polish, not russian, but its the same fighter.

 

[powell99]

I was always partial to the F-105 myself.