CIC's 14th Birthday

Can't edit again, sorry.
I just wanted to add one more pilot example:
Richard Bong became 2nd Lt. in 1942, and got promoted to Major in 1944.

I don't have a Navy example though.

Also it might have been an advantage for him that he did so well in McAuliffe and that he knew some Admirals now who liked him.
 
I actually wonder if Tolwyn's progression through the ranks wasn't even faster than we think. In wartime, five years is very long - and remember, the fact that he is a captain in 2639 doesn't mean he was only promoted to the rank a day before. I think it's easily feasible that he would have made the rank of captain within a year or two of McAuliffe.

I mean, try to imagine how many officers Confed actually needed after McAuliffe. How many were killed during the battle? How many additional posts were created afterwards? As a general rule, when a nation mobilises for war, its armed forces expand several times over, fivefold, tenfold, or even more. Some of the new posts are filled in by reserve officers, but that doesn't even begin to cover the needs.

Imagine the Kriegsmarine during WWII. They started off with 57 u-boats. By the time the war ended, they had lost almost 800 of them (and still had probably another 100 in active service). That's almost 20x the number - and many of the u-boats they had early in the war were small coastal subs that required significantly less crew than the massive Type IX boats or even the standard Type VIIs. Promotion rates in the Kriegsmarine were so rapid, you could go from junior officer to u-boat commander within a year of active service. They just couldn't get enough of them. Now imagine the thousands of destroyers and corvettes that Confed operates - did they have all of those at the outbreak of the war? Of course not.

It's only at the level of commodore/admiral that promotion rates are significantly slower. When your fleet expands, you need many officers up to the rank of captain, but you only need a few more commodores and admirals (during peacetime, usually, there are too many high-rankers, precisely so that you don't need to suddenly promote too many untried men to such positions).
 
I see y'all's point. Well, I hadn't actually put together stats for Tolwyn as yet; if I can make him a ship's captain, I shouldn't really have to make any...

.....new idea.........yeah..............that'll do nicely, as long as no one has a problem with him being a tin-can skipper for a while......
 
I actually wonder if Tolwyn's progression through the ranks wasn't even faster than we think. In wartime, five years is very long - and remember, the fact that he is a captain in 2639 doesn't mean he was only promoted to the rank a day before. I think it's easily feasible that he would have made the rank of captain within a year or two of McAuliffe.

Hell, he's made *a* captain at the end of Action Stations. He's promoted to 1st Lt. and sent back to Earth to take command of a raiding frigate.

When your fleet expands, you need many officers up to the rank of captain, but you only need a few more commodores and admirals (during peacetime, usually, there are too many high-rankers, precisely so that you don't need to suddenly promote too many untried men to such positions).

Far less turnover, too. Confed's thousands of captains are going to be dying very quickly on the front lines.
 
In Action Stations, at the Battle of McAullife, we see the Concordia and the Ark Royal.

Check the WCPedia page for the battle. I went through AS and pulled out every ship name that was in there. There were other carriers mentioned, but that did not see action.

Are there any corresponding examples in history? Just thought I'd ask; I've been working under the whole Space Force assumption up to this point.

I can look, but nothing is coming to me off the top of my head. I was thinking about the massive losses that the Confederation sustains and the need to fill those slots, whether or not the person going into it is ready.
 
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Actually, thinking about it again this morning, there is already a WC universe precedent of someone taking command of a ship (and getting promoted to Captain) at the tender age of 26: Bondarevsky. Might be another reason why Tolwyn liked him so damned much...
 
Tolwyn's strangely immediate man-crush on Bondarevsky is one of the universe's great mysteries. Please never, ever try to figure it out.
 
Right. Gotcha.

Ranger-class stats are complete; starting work on the early Durango-class.

Still up in the air for what I want to do for the Cats. In particular, I'm not sure how to handle the notion of "orbital gunships". My first thought had been to modify Dorkirs to the task, but I realized that if I'm really baking some old Confed designs for this that I might want to bake some old Cat designs too...like the Zulu-class. I could possibly use Sivar-class for the job. Thoughts?
 
I imagine those were just turret mines of some sort.
https://www.wcnews.com/wcpedia/Turret_Mine

Saga has a Kilrathi turret mine model if you need a description how it might look like.

If those turrets are build to fire at targets on the planet's surface they must have different weapons though, normal laser guns don't have the range for that. So maybe a bigger version of the ones like we see them in Saga.
Or are those just part of the blockade, positioned to fire at ships that launch from the planet?
 
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I imagine those were just turret mines of some sort.
https://www.wcnews.com/wcpedia/Turret_Mine

Saga has a Kilrathi turret mine model if you need a description how it might look like.

If those turrets are build to fire at targets on the planet's surface they must have different weapons though, normal laser guns don't have the range for that. So maybe a bigger version of the ones like we see them in Saga.
Or are those just part of the blockade, positioned to fire at ships that launch from the planet?

Hmm......no, I think they're supposed to be actual ships. From Claw Marks, p. 11: "The Terran fleet strikes first against the gunships threatening the human colonies. The enemy ships are destroyed with minimal
loss of life among the colonists. Then the two fleets settle in for a pounding match."

Interesting wording - implies that there are multiple colonies in the Enyo system...
 
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The best parallel we have for Tolwyn's career is probably Horatio Nelson, though Tolwyn was not fortunate enough to die during his greatest victory and therefore enter history with an unblemished reputation. Britain was at war for the majority of Nelson's career, and for somebody with a bit of political backing (which both Nelson and Tolwyn had), promotion hurdles were knee-high. Nelson:
-joined the Royal Navy aged 12 (1770), and was rated midshipman that year.
-was appointed acting Lieutenant aged 17 (1775); and passed for full Lieutenant aged 19 (1777).
-was promoted to Master-and-Commander (something of an archaic rank given to the CO of vessels below frigate size - probably roughly equivalent to that of Commander these days) aged 20 (1778).
-was still 20 when promoted to full (post-)Captain, in 1779.
-was without a ship in the peace between 1783 and 1793, but recalled to active service when war broke out again.
-Commodore in the Royal Navy is a job title, not a rank. Nelson did the job several times in the War of the First Coalition.
-made Admiral in 1797, aged 38, after (though not related to, no matter how awesome crossing the deck of one enemy vessel to board another might be, the British system at the time depended only on seniority) his part in the Battle of Cape St Vincent.
 
Alright: I've got stats up in the non-canonical chapters for the Ranger and Durango-classes, as well as a set of stats up for the Wildcat (the Wildcat is currently the only entry up in Chapter 6.4).

http://wcrpg.wikia.com/wiki/7.4:_Non-Canonical_Capital_Ship_Catalog#Ranger
http://wcrpg.wikia.com/wiki/7.4:_Non-Canonical_Capital_Ship_Catalog#Durango
http://wcrpg.wikia.com/wiki/6.4:_Non-Canonical_Vehicle_Catalog

Lemme know what y'all think. Please bear in mind that these are pre-WC1 designs, and have been designed to balance with craft from that era. As such, they're kinda sucky...

Came across a honkin' huge list of ships from a few years back on these forums that were involved at Enyo, and I'm pretty sure I haven't got time to design them all and still write the campaign. For the Kilrathi, the plan is to build the Gamorgin and Targu-II classes, as well as the original Dralthi and Gotha fighter (I'm confused by the Gotha - is it supposed to be Cat or Confed? The name reminds me of "Gratha".). I also see where in my notes I have to design the Texas-class for the Confeds.
 
Came across a honkin' huge list of ships from a few years back on these forums that were involved at Enyo, and I'm pretty sure I haven't got time to design them all and still write the campaign. For the Kilrathi, the plan is to build the Gamorgin and Targu-II classes, as well as the original Dralthi and Gotha fighter (I'm confused by the Gotha - is it supposed to be Cat or Confed? The name reminds me of "Gratha".). I also see where in my notes I have to design the Texas-class for the Confeds.
I think you mean the Targu class, not Targu II :).

The Gotha is a Confed ship. The name is a reference to a range of German bomber aircraft types from WWI - although they weren't actually called Gotha, their manufacturer was, and they were frequently referred to as Gothas.
 
I think you mean the Targu class, not Targu II :).

The Gotha is a Confed ship. The name is a reference to a range of German bomber aircraft types from WWI - although they weren't actually called Gotha, their manufacturer was, and they were frequently referred to as Gothas.

Lemme link in the thread I found before I lose it again: https://www.wcnews.com/chatzone/threads/confed-kilrathi-forces-during-enyo-capture-of-2639.20279/

Hmm...okay, thanks. That complicates things just a hair for me; I had thought it might be the predecessor to the Gratha, which according to WCPedia won't see action until 2654. Considering how the Gratha is usually treated in fiction, I suppose the nominal predecessor would be...the Asjaka?

No Jalthis either. Hell. Well, now, hang on......that looks like it could go either way. Do we have a service date on the Jalthi?

On the Targu-vs-Targu-II, that's a comfort. The numbers I was coming up with put the damned thing about as powerful as the stinkin' Gamorkin I'd just finished putting together.

EDIT: Never mind on the Jalthi question. LOAF put it this way in the other thread - " The list is only those ships which we've seen before 2639 and not those which *could* exist before 2639."
 
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Good find! People often forget that a lot of the research they are doing may have already been done years ago.

Hmm...okay, thanks. That complicates things just a hair for me; I had thought it might be the predecessor to the Gratha, which according to WCPedia won't see action until 2654. Considering how the Gratha is usually treated in fiction, I suppose the nominal predecessor would be...the Asjaka?
Either the Asjaka, or the Gamora - I don't think we can really tell. The Asjaka actually seems to be much bigger than a Gratha - with three people onboard, it seems more comparable to a Grikath (which, thanks to the Academy cartoon, may have actually predated the Gratha).

On the Targu-vs-Targu-II, that's a comfort. The numbers I was coming up with put the damned thing about as powerful as the stinkin' Gamorkin I'd just finished putting together.
Well, remember - there are no canon numbers for the Targu II, in fact the ship doesn't exist as far as canon is concerned. It only appears in Standoff. And all we know about the original Targu is that it's a frigate.
 
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On the Terran side:
Wasn't there also a Granicus-class heavy corvette and a Falcon-class(??) light corvette mentioned somewhere? I think it is in one of the books where they visit Hellhole and see strangely upgraded fighters. One of these classes may also be interesting for that time.
 
I believe those were both mentioned... in Fleet Action. Let me check...

Yep, Fleet Action. Both ships are referred to in the context of Hunter's visit to the Landreich, and the bizarre collection of ships that the Landreich uses.

The Granicus-class is said to be a medium corvette, "a line discontinued more than twenty years ago". What does this tell us? At the very least, we can tell that the production of Granicus corvettes was discontinued at some point before 2648, and most likely between 2643 and 2647. The logic behind this: if the date referred to had been within about a year of 2648, then it would have been just plain "twenty years ago". If the date had been more than five years before 2648, then it would have been "nearly thirty years ago". So, "more than twenty years ago" gives us a window of about four years. But there's a caveat... this is Hunter's internal monologue: it's meaningless unless you assume that Hunter has encyclopedic knowledge of outdated ship designs. In addition, we don't know what "discontinued" means. It could be either the moment the ships were retired (but this doesn't seem too logical), or the moment the ships were put out of production (more reasonable). All in all, we know the ship is old - but we don't know how old it is, and if it was around in 2639 (but it seems like a safe bet).

The Falcon-class is referred to even more briefly. Yes, it's a light corvette, but the ship doesn't put in an appearance. Hunter simply sees a Ferret, which had been refitted with the engine from "an old Falcon class light corvette". We can't tell anything from that, really. The Ferret itself, incidentally, is an early Ferret A - which by itself must be at least thirty years old! (yes, Ferrets were around in the Enyo timeframe)
 
Either the Asjaka, or the Gamora - I don't think we can really tell. The Asjaka actually seems to be much bigger than a Gratha - with three people onboard, it seems more comparable to a Grikath (which, thanks to the Academy cartoon, may have actually predated the Gratha).

No question, it did predate the Gratha. The Wing Commander I & II Ultimate Strategy Guide has Halcyon specifying that Gateway 1 was the first encounter with Gratha.


That list should have the Zulu-class battleship on it as well; not sure why I didn't include it, it's another of the Kilrathi class names mentioned ion Action Stations. I believe the Kilrathi had an unnamed "heavy battleship" class in that book as well.

In addition, we don't know what "discontinued" means. It could be either the moment the ships were retired (but this doesn't seem too logical), or the moment the ships were put out of production (more reasonable).

Discontinued is such an odd word; it feels much more like something you would assosciate with a civilian product than a warship. It could be that the Granicus-class is something for privateers rather than a straight up warship...
 
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Discontinued is such an odd word; it feels much more like something you would assosciate with a civilian product than a warship. It could be that the Granicus-class is something for privateers rather than a straight up warship...
That is a very interesting thought - after all, a ship like the Orion wouldn't be much smaller than a corvette, so bigger civilian ships may also be around.
 
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