Bush and Nukes?

Phillip Tanaka

Swabbie
Banned
Heh, well actually, I get my fair share of junk mail.

Seriously, an Email saying you replied to the Bush and Nukes topic was sent to me, but when I looked, nothing. Nada. Zip. Zilch. Bupkus. And I thought it rather strange. Did you say anything about the Bush and Nukes topic? And if you did, why isn't it showing up?
 

Quarto

Unknown Enemy
Originally posted by Phillip Tanaka
I think that it was because of the training they had gone through that they were able to shoot her in self defence. Was it the right thing to do? Like I said, I don't think I would be able to do it.
They shot her because she was shooting at them - in that situation, they probably wouldn't have even noticed that she was a woman until she was dying on the ground. I rather doubt that anyone - you, me, anyone - would have acted differently (except that, lacking any training, we would have probably been shot first ;)). But it's one thing to shoot at combatants, and it's entirely another to skin prisoners or kill civilians.

War isn't the way it's portrayed in Wing Commander or any other number of video games. War is not pretty or glorious.
Now, 'ang about there, mate. Most WC games make it pretty clear that war is not something you'd like to take part in.
 

Ripper

Peace Through Superior Firepower
Originally posted by Aries
the recruit waves his "leave me alone, i'm a pussy" card


There is not now, nor has there ever been such a thing in U.S. Marine Corps recruit training, with the possible exception of a rumored test series in 1988 at San Diego. Upon hearing this rumor, I immediately went to Edson Range, corraled the first Drill Instructor I saw, and he had never heard of such a thing. Something like that would have swept through the Drill Instructor ranks like wildfire. No one else I talked to that day had heard anything either. It's a bullshit rumor.
 

Aries

Vice Admiral
I would hope the Marines wouldn't be as dumb as the Army to issue a stress card. I shudder to think what would happen to the quality of the Marine Corps if one was issued.
 

Phillip Tanaka

Swabbie
Banned
Originally posted by Quarto
But it's one thing to shoot at combatants, and it's entirely another to skin prisoners or kill civilians.
Oh certainly. Sure it is.

Originally posted by Quarto
Now, 'ang about there, mate. Most WC games make it pretty clear that war is not something you'd like to take part in.
True. There are elements of war in some movies and games. And sure, Wing Commander does put the message across that most everyone want's to stop the war, hell even the Kilrathi Emperor wants the war ended as soon as possible. Another good example of a game with anti war issues is Metal Gear. What I'm saying is that Wing Commander is a game set in a war time, and is meant to be fun. Now there's nothing wrong wit that. I love the game, have many other war games and combat games. However, it's only a game, and as such, many of the atrocities of war are spared, and understandably so. We don't, or at least I hope we don't, play war games so we can see how much pain and suffering the participants go through. (I'm not talking about, say, a game like Soldier of Fortune, which sells itself on it's grizzily, gory, portrayal of combat). The emotional trauma that soldiers go through, such as the troops in Full Metal Jacket, many people would be turned away by this in a video game. Or, a good example I thought of is the anti war anti action protest. It's never been used in a video game, and rightfully so. Who wants to have to fight against the VietCong for months, only to go home and be shit on by the anti war protesters? Nope, not me. Boot up a counter terrorist game after watching seeing Binladen on the news, only to be confronted by a lot of 'protect the poor defenceless terrorists' and 'September 11 was a conspiracy by the government' properganda? Even if it was allowed in games, it wouldn't be put in. The game will just let you go hunting. Which is exactly what yours truely does to terrorists on a regular basis. Now, if I could only get that old Wing Commander game to work properly so I can fight the Mandarins...
 

Quarto

Unknown Enemy
Originally posted by Phillip Tanaka
However, it's only a game, and as such, many of the atrocities of war are spared, and understandably so. We don't, or at least I hope we don't, play war games so we can see how much pain and suffering the participants go through.
You are correct to a certain degree, but I guess this would be the time to point out that the destruction of Kilrah, with all its civilians, was in fact such an atrocity, and you got to pull the trigger.
But I'm just nitpicking. Yes, for the most part, games will focus on fun.
 

Phillip Tanaka

Swabbie
Banned
Hmmm, yes, the destruction of Kilrah was horrid in terms of how many innocent Kilrathi would have died. Many more that combatents and such, I believe. In the novel, this is talked about quite a bit. Tolwyn, it seemed, was going to use the Behemoth on Kilrah no matter what. Paladin admits that he would go rogue and use a T-Bomb on Kilrah. Him, Blair, and Eisen, as well as others (Kevin, perhaps) talk a lot about the innocent deaths it would bring. Where, I guess, could go back to how war brings out the worst in people. In the game I'm not even sure if innocents are mentioned. Vaquero does, but that was in referrence to bombing non Kilrathi targets. When I bombed Kilrah, I had nothing but vengence on my mind. I wouldn't be surprised if other people felt the same way.
 

Aries

Vice Admiral
leaves out the atrocities? Goddard, Firekka (ie the Sivar Eshrad), Locanda, Telemon, Kilrah, Mylon 2. I'd say they are in there. course the majority are done by the "Bad Guys" so you come out looking like the crusader for the just. innocents are mentioned, but it is always with the cats or BL killing them. and to be a nitpick, it was Vagabond, not Vaquero, who talks about bombing civies. and hell yeah i had revenge on my mind when i nuked Kilrah.
 
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