Border Worlds - Confed (Again!)

I disagree, I'm pretty sure -- no, I'm confident-- that if Origin ever did make another game that their will be worse things then a Tiamat. That happens to most all game sequels. Of course they are going to make something better and cooler in the next game. Just as Confed will get new ships to fly, to keep things interesting for the player, we will also fight new and scarier enemies (I hope so, we need see why the Nephilim is called "Death").That does not mean that the situation cannot be won, though. For instance, in Freespace the entire force in FS1 was merely a scouting force. I'm pretty sure that the Nephilim have a lot more in storage, as well.

Keep in mind that even fictionally the people agreed that if the Nephilim wanted to conquer us, they could. I do not think that just becasue a Tiamat is classified as a "dreadnought" in this game that it makes it the pinnacle of their fleet. This is just my opinion, though.
 
I'll totally agree with you, that they WILL have better stuff in any next game. But that's simply because, once this type of conflict is brought about, either their best equipment, or new technology is invented. (The same with how Confed would react.) Thus, they will have better things, your right, as for whether they do now or not...*shrugs* I'm not quite sure.
 
While the Tiamat was classified as a dreadnought I don't think that it was the pinnalce of their warship capabilities. It may have been the biggest ship but it certainly didn't have the destuctive power of other smaller ships in respect to both weapons and fighter complements.

The Midway had over 250 fighters available at any given time plus the addition of the plasma waepon gave it a very big offenseive punch. I don't know how many fighters the Tiamat carried but it doesn't really have any offesive weapons, just fighter defense turrets. The Midway had more turrets in the way of defense than the Tiamat, not to mention the weapons placement was more spread out for better coverage whereas the Tiamat's weapons were placed up front and were ineffective at covering the rear of the ship.

Course then there was the Nephilim ship-killer with it's plasma weapon. Also, the fighter defense turrets were spread out to provide for better defense of the ship. And don't forget about the Plunkett class of cruisers. The amount of firepower that baby carries is awesome.:cool:

The Nephilim may not have been cannon fodder but perhaps they were a lesser being that were tasked with exploring the region with ships that were of lesser value. The real warriors of their species may be waiting to find out how the first excursions go before committing more forces. If the lesser forces were effective then the greater warriors would know what to expect and what kind of firepower to bring with them.:eek:
 
IIRC the Tiamat dreadnought also possesses a Fleet Plasma Cannon, just like the Kraken. [Fun aside: considering the Tiamat has tentacle like appendages, shouldn't it be called Kraken?] Anyways the whole point of a dreadnought is that its the most powerful weapon in the arsenal. That's why its called a dreadnought. Its the sort of ship that's meant to have us quaking in our boots. Granted the Tiamat wasn't particularly effective, but why would they build something bigger than the Tiamat, when they've already got the Tiamat plus many Leviathans and Krakens to boot?

We know there were several thousand fighters with each wormhole, which suggests that the Leviathans have massive complements. Also the Kraken's weapon can devastate entire fleets with one shot. How much more powerful do you want? A plasma gun that can fling plasma across the galaxy and hit Buenos Aires? ;) If the Nephilim really are the lesser of what's out there (and I don't think they are) then let's be honest about it - Confed's screwed. It'd be like the Earth Alliance in B5 taking on the Vorlorns. They couldn't handle the Minbari, what makes you think they could deal with the Vorlorns?
 
Originally posted by I'm thinkin...

The Midway had over 250 fighters available at any given time plus the addition of the plasma waepon gave it a very big offenseive punch.

If the lesser forces were effective then the greater warriors would know what to expect and what kind of firepower to bring with them.:eek:
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I don't think that you can really count the plasma weapon in the offensive power of the midway anymore, because, as the captain said,
"its a fire-and-forget weapon, we've fired it once and now we can forget it",
unless of course confed backwards engineers it or something.

if the greater warriors do exist, then the fat lady just sang fellas:eek:
 
Originally posted by Oggy


I don't think that you can really count the plasma weapon in the offensive power of the midway anymore, because, as the captain said,
"its a fire-and-forget weapon, we've fired it once and now we can forget it",
unless of course confed backwards engineers it or something.

if the greater warriors do exist, then the fat lady just sang fellas:eek:
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Whether the fat lady is singing depends on the quality of those warriors (and quantity), what the true intentions of the Nephilim are, and what the Nephilim are up to in their own corner of the galaxy.
While the crystal will probably stay on the Midway for a while, I expect that a new class of ship will be built around production models of the thing. Confed has shown a willingness to incorporate alien super weapons in the past (the Concordia's mighty Phase Transit Cannon), and I doubt they'd be willing to let this one just sit on a ship that probably can't fire it again.
Incidentally, does anyone know whether or not more PSTs existed in addition to the one on the Concordia?
 
AFAIK, every Confedration class ship was built with the PTC but at some time no PTC were included anymore, since they were too dangerous.
 
Weren't the Confederation class ships designed specifically for carrying PTCs? If that's the case, wouldn't that mean that when they "stopped including" PTCs in those ships, they stopped manufacturing ships of that class? :D

--Eder
 
Originally posted by Penguin
IIRC the Tiamat dreadnought also possesses a Fleet Plasma Cannon, just like the Kraken. [Fun aside: considering the Tiamat has tentacle like appendages, shouldn't it be called Kraken?]
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I didn't know the Tiamat had a Plasma weapon. Where is it?

If there were so many fighters and capships with each wormhole, why do the bugs get driven back all the time? If they were so superior you'd think they would show it by beating on Confed a little more.



I don't think that you can really count the plasma weapon in the offensive power of the midway anymore, because, as the captain said, "its a fire-and-forget weapon, we've fired it once and now we can forget it",
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That's true but I'm sure Confed engineers would refit and repair the plasma weapon to be fired repeatedly without the threat of an overload. Otherwise whats the logic of putting the weapon on it in the first place.:)
 
Originally posted by Eder
Weren't the Confederation class ships designed specifically for carrying PTCs? If that's the case, wouldn't that mean that when they "stopped including" PTCs in those ships, they stopped manufacturing ships of that class? :D

--Eder
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That may well be. :) AFAIK, it's in the KS manual which I don't have.

And I'm thinking: Don't forget: The bugs are being pushed abck all the time because you, the hero, fight for Confed and you're the good guy. Thus, you win against any overwheming odds. Regardless of their technological advantages (which the bugs yet have to show me)
The Tiamat carries a fleet plasma cannon, it'smentioned in the WCP guide but it isn't included in the game.
 
Yes Mekt I know that I am the hero and I have the ability to kick as much alien ass as I want. I've played through WCP and SO about umpteen zillion times.:p

I have purposely let the bugs have the upper hand in some of the missions just so I could fly other missions that I normally wouldn't fly during the winning path of the games. I was just saying those things for arguements sake. The WCP manual makes the Nephilim out to be so big and bad but obviously they're not.
 
Please note that the WCP manual was written at a time when the Nephilim had just arrived. They eliminated everything they came into contact with easily enough at the time of writing.
 
I guess I should have stated that it was the WCP gold edition manual, so next time spare me the lecture. Just because I didn't mention that doesn't mean I don't know. I've read the manual cover to cover just for the enjoyment of reading it, so I think I know what I am talking about. :)

When I do find something I don't know about I will let you know so you can lecture to me all about it so I do know for future reference, okay. :D
 
I didn't know the Tiamat had a Plasma weapon. Where is it?
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In the middle, I guess. Comes from the WCP Guide...

I guess I should have stated that it was the WCP gold edition manual, so next time spare me the lecture.
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The gold edition manual is the same thing, with an extra segment for SO.

That said, I would say that the manual is right -- depsite Casey's best efforts, the Nephilim still took thousands and thousands of prisoners off for dissection, they still devestated planets, they still killed millions... and the scariest bit is that *they didn't seem to care* about their losses.

Further, it is speculated (by Boomer's famous lost fiction:)) that the Nephilim had an alterior motive in attacking -- and that they achieved this goal...
 
Originally posted by Bandit LOAF

Further, it is speculated (by Boomer's famous lost fiction:)) that the Nephilim had an alterior motive in attacking -- and that they achieved this goal...
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That would make a hell of a lot of sense, actually. As to why they let themselves be pushed back so easily-when they obviously had the numbers and the established bases (taken over stations) to do so.

And I do believe they did do a hell of a lot worse than people believe, if only because-for a while, we didn't know they were there! Kinda hard to make assumptions on what they did before we found out.
 
Originally posted by Skyfire

That would make a hell of a lot of sense, actually. As to why they let themselves be pushed back so easily-when they obviously had the numbers and the established bases (taken over stations) to do so.
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Yeah. Point number four on my list, and the only idea on the list other than the RIF that I'd really take all that seriously. The problem, of course, is that we have no idea what the diversion might have been for (but then again, that's the whole point).
Hopefully, one of these days we'll have the opportunity to find out.
It could also be the lead-in for a new 'redemption' style game, similar to WC2, where there is a huge cloud hanging over the main character's head. Casey is believed to be the hero right now, but if his heroics somehow took attention away from what the Nephilim were up to, his fame could come back and bite him fairly easily.

Originally posted by Skyfire

And I do believe they did do a hell of a lot worse than people believe, if only because-for a while, we didn't know they were there! Kinda hard to make assumptions on what they did before we found out.
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Should that be that they did a 'hell of a lot' better? I find it hard to imagine that they could have done worse than most people believe...
 
Originally posted by junior


It could also be the lead-in for a new 'redemption' style game, similar to WC2, where there is a huge cloud hanging over the main character's head. Casey is believed to be the hero right now, but if his heroics somehow took attention away from what the Nephilim were up to, his fame could come back and bite him fairly easily.
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what, nephilim stealth fighters destroy the Midway and Casey is blamed then assigned to a station in the middle of nowhere out of the way of combat until a dramatic turn of events throw him back into the limelight <G>
 
Originally posted by Oggy


what, nephilim stealth fighters destroy the Midway and Casey is blamed then assigned to a station in the middle of nowhere out of the way of combat until a dramatic turn of events throw him back into the limelight <G>
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Funny guy.

/bonk!
:p

Actually, I had something more in mind like this.
Casey destroys the wormhole in Kilrah, and everyone assumes everything is fine and dandy. The Nephilim launch a new assault through the Proxima wormhole, so Confed is unable to run the proper recon and survey sweeps through the systems extending off Kilrah. Casey and company squash the second incursion after a little hard work.
Casey is once again the savior of the Confederation, and parades are held in his honor, women of loose morals throw themselves at him, and babies are named after him.
Two days later, a new Nephilim super dreadnought that has a plasma weapon that roughly does to planetary surfaces what the Midway's plasma crystal does to fleets, shows up in orbit over a Confed world and scours the surface clean of atmosphere (and life). Incidentally, the Midway was in that system, and the sole survivor was Maniac (of course...).
All of a sudden, everyone wants answers, everyone wants to know how this could have happened, everyone wants to know what went wrong, and most importantly, everyone wants to know WHO SCREWED UP!!!!
Well, Casey didn't actually do anything wrong, but since he IS the hero and all, a lot of fingers are going to be pointed his way (the heroic death of the Midway, as detailed by a barely conscious Maniac and the log buoy manage to keep the blame from falling on the now dead Captain and CAG).
Is it Casey's fault?
Not even close.
Did he do ANYTHING wrong?
No.
Does it matter?
Since when is public opinion ever reasonable?


Sure, the above is all in fun, and its just an example (I'm fairly certain that the Nephilim version of the Behemeth is at least a couple of games away...), but it illustrates one (remote) possibility.
 
sounds about right to me (the public opinion bit)
So maniac will be a bit economical with the truth, ie. could he be covering his own hide leaving casey to take the fall, or have i got mixed up somewhere?
 
Originally posted by junior


Should that be that they did a 'hell of a lot' better? I find it hard to imagine that they could have done worse than most people believe...
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I was refering to their abductions etc, of course. But yeah, if ya wanna get TECHNICAL. :D

As for your idea, that does seem like it would be a possible route. After all, you never do know what happened in the Kilrah area, hell Confed sure isn't keeping the debris away from civies, I'd be suprised if they stepped up to do anything else.
 
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