Best superfighter
- Thread starter Chameleon102
- Start date
Originally posted by Mekt-Hakkikt
Well she had, just like the Dragon, those autotracking-guns, so skill was not necessarily so important.
The differance was that the Dragon had it all, from bomber grade defences to infinite cloaking to torpedoes. The Excalibur had definite strengths and weaknesses that the pilot had to know and work with, which made flying it a lot more interesting.
Best, Raptor
Cmdre Crane Seccafien
Rear Admiral
The Vampire from WCP and SO is the Best (all types)
Seriously, I'll keep that in mind for next time.
Mekt-Hakkikt
Mpanty's bane
That's not fair. After all they fought against the hero Blair, us the player, of course they had to lose, in spite of their superior technology. No one can beat the hero and the side he is on.
Hmm, did the Excalibur really have a weakness? I mean a real weakness when compared to the other ships? I don't think so...
And the Excalibur had the superior gun loadout.
But, I agree with you that the Dragon is the best superfighter and that was the question of this thread after all, not which one we liked best (or I misunderstood it).
I don't agree that flying the Excalibur needed special skills, since she was superior to any other ship available at that time.
Originally posted by Mekt-Hakkikt
That's not fair. After all they fought against the hero Blair, us the player, of course they had to lose, in spite of their superior technology. No one can beat the hero and the side he is on.
Well, I was answering that question in relation to the point that they had "superior flying skills" in the novel, so the fact that they were up against the player character is not relevant. (As opposed to the game, where player skill vs the AI would be a factor.)
Simply saying "well, they were the bad guys, so of course they would lose" would destroy the internal consistancy of the story, as that explanation comes from outside the story. The best *internal* explantion is that the Black Lance weren't quite all they were cracked up to be.
Hmm, did the Excalibur really have a weakness? I mean a real weakness when compared to the other ships? I don't think so...
And the Excalibur had the superior gun loadout.
But, I agree with you that the Dragon is the best superfighter and that was the question of this thread after all, not which one we liked best (or I misunderstood it).
I don't agree that flying the Excalibur needed special skills, since she was superior to any other ship available at that time.
I never said that the Dragon was *best* superfighter, just that it was designed to do it all, from stealth missions to dogfighting to torpedo attacks. That it turn made it hideously expensive and difficult to build, which is huge disadvatage right there. It doesn't matter how flashy a fighter is, if you can get enough of it into battle to make a differance, you've lost the ball game right there.
As for the Excalibur, it did posses considerable advantages over the other WC3 fighters, it did need some carefull handling. For example, the lack of torps meant your ship attack skills had to be considerably better than with a Dragon.
Best, Raptor
Mekt-Hakkikt
Mpanty's bane
Hmm, OK let me be more precisely:
In the novel, too, the Black Lance pilots are superior to the regular Confed pilot, since they win the described engagements. Against Blair, a hero, of course they have problems but even Blair and other good pilots like Maniac find them challenging. Thus, I think the Black Lance were superior to the average Confed/UBW pilot.
Now the other point, the best superfighter.
I misunderstood you, I thought you agreed that the Dragon is indeed the best superfighter and for that reason dislike her and prefer the Excalibur.
Now, in terms of 'powergaming', where cost and difficulty to build don't matter, this is were I think the thread was leading to, the Dragon is the best superfighter IMHO, since she seems just perfect in any aspect.
If the Dragon is the best fighter, taking 'reality' into consideration, remains to be seen but this was not the point the poll was about AFAIK.
But even on a simple 'which-do-you-like-more' basis, I have to say I like the Dragon better than the Excal. And there we disagree, right?
But even
In the novel, too, the Black Lance pilots are superior to the regular Confed pilot, since they win the described engagements. Against Blair, a hero, of course they have problems but even Blair and other good pilots like Maniac find them challenging. Thus, I think the Black Lance were superior to the average Confed/UBW pilot.
Now the other point, the best superfighter.
I misunderstood you, I thought you agreed that the Dragon is indeed the best superfighter and for that reason dislike her and prefer the Excalibur.
Now, in terms of 'powergaming', where cost and difficulty to build don't matter, this is were I think the thread was leading to, the Dragon is the best superfighter IMHO, since she seems just perfect in any aspect.
If the Dragon is the best fighter, taking 'reality' into consideration, remains to be seen but this was not the point the poll was about AFAIK.
But even on a simple 'which-do-you-like-more' basis, I have to say I like the Dragon better than the Excal. And there we disagree, right?
But even
Yeah, and Blair's been flying for 4000 years by that time. In time, had the Black Lance not been stopped, it would have developed into an elite force that could have handled anything.
As for the Dragon, the poll didn't ask which fighter was the best production model, but which was the best SUPERFIGHTER (something that is supposed to be special and a little more difficult to build, else it would be just another production model). And the fact is, as you have even said yourself, that the Dragon is way superior to anything else in its time. More so than the Vampire is to the Panther.
As for the Dragon, the poll didn't ask which fighter was the best production model, but which was the best SUPERFIGHTER (something that is supposed to be special and a little more difficult to build, else it would be just another production model). And the fact is, as you have even said yourself, that the Dragon is way superior to anything else in its time. More so than the Vampire is to the Panther.
Actually, they would have developed into Nazi Germany in space, and taken Confed down the same route. As for their flying skills, Blair and Maniac did not fight the battle alone. There were a whole heap of other pilots involved, mostly Border Worlder who had a minimum of training and were flying obsolete craft. The fact that the Black Lance couldn't even beat such second rate opposition makes me seriously dubious about entrusting humanity's futre to them.
The fact that something is a superfighter doesn't neccessarily mean that production considerations are taken out of the equation. After all, in designing superfighters in the real world (F22, Eurofighter, Rafale) those were a *huge conideration. The countries building them had to consider not just the performace of the machines, but also what they could build with their technology and resources to fullfill their design needs.
The question of the poll was "Which is best superfighter?", not "Which is the most fun to fly in the game?" or "Which is the best for power gaming?" And in considering a superfighter's tactical worth, its ability to swing the balance of a battle is surely the most crucial. If a fighter can't be built in enough numbers to win battles (which after all, is what fighters are for) it doesn't really matter how terrific its stats are. That's the view I'm taking of the various fighters, as tools for winning battles rather than as power toys for the players. The Vampire (a production model, I might add) meets that test while the Dragon doesn't. And in spite of that, the Vampire is, as you say, a better fighter than the Dragon.
Best, Raptor