Dundradal
Frog Blast the Vent Core!
From his use of those names and the numbers frostytheplebe quotes (the loss of the Jutlands) it sounds like the info is from Fleet Tactics. The numbers sound familar to what they had up there.
Behemoth Crew Compliment?
- Thread starter frostytheplebe
- Start date
From his use of those names and the numbers frostytheplebe quotes (the loss of the Jutlands) it sounds like the info is from Fleet Tactics. The numbers sound familar to what they had up there.
McGruff
Banned
Right, he was aware of unusual activity in the system even earlier than that when Angel's team was captured, but I have to believe that if he had even the slightest suspicion of the scale of what Confed was planning, he would have done everything at his disposal to stop delivery of the T-bomb such as mining the jump point to the point that no fighter could have gotten through, hardening the fault target with shielding and the equivilent of some huge durasteel manhole cover - not to mention massive amounts of antiaircraft and fighter cover. Every rock in the vicinity of Kilrah would have been scoured until there was absolutely no possibility of a refueling base being available. The T-Bomb project required a great deal of luck on top of total secrecy to be successful. By the time all this took place, Thrakhath had already admitted to himself that he had underestimated the humans too much in the past, and after End Run, swore to himself that he never would again.
I don't think official WC history is at all irrelevant in this case. The fact of the matter is that Hobbes doesn't escape with the information. There's quite a bit of deviation between possible gameplay scenarios and the official events of the novels. For example, in WC4 Blair and Decker are able to land on Telemon and still return, but the book makes it clear that anyone exposed to the virus must be quarantined for life. Maybe a more relevant example is the possibility of the WC3 player quickly dispatching Thrakhath after the taunting scene with Angel, and still being able to make it back to the Victory before she jumps - then the prince is miraculously alive again. just because it's possible in the game doesn't make it realistic. I have to believe that a major key point in the success of the bombing run is that Hobbes doesn't get away with the plans.
Spertallica
Rear Admiral
Hobbes escaped before any info on the T-Bomb reached the Victory, IIRC- so it's irrelevant whether he made it back to Kilrah in terms of Thrakhath knowing about the T-Bomb. Additionally- if you play WC3- the faultline is a very specific point on the planet's crust- hence the reason you have to fly who knows how many miles along the surface of Kilrah. I think "impenetrable" is an appropriate word for the anti-fighter defenses the Kilrathi would have set up to stop Blair's single fighter if they had known that faultline WAS the key to destroying Kilrah.
I still think that the Behemoth is more viable then the T-Bomb, precisely because the T-Bomb required you to hit a specific, tiny point on a planet's surface, instead of blasting the planet from halfway across the system. I think you overestimate the time the Kilrathi would have to respond before the Behemoth would be able to fire- it appears that it can fire upon entering a system within a matter of minutes- how much of the home defense fleet would honestly be able to respond in time if they didn't know it was coming? (Unlike a fighter that has to fly THROUGH the defense fleet to reach the planet?)
I still think that the Behemoth is more viable then the T-Bomb, precisely because the T-Bomb required you to hit a specific, tiny point on a planet's surface, instead of blasting the planet from halfway across the system. I think you overestimate the time the Kilrathi would have to respond before the Behemoth would be able to fire- it appears that it can fire upon entering a system within a matter of minutes- how much of the home defense fleet would honestly be able to respond in time if they didn't know it was coming? (Unlike a fighter that has to fly THROUGH the defense fleet to reach the planet?)
BrynS
Mr Kat says...
The whole reason for Hobbe's escape was to get the information he'd captured regarding the T-Bomb back to Thrakhath -- the cutscene showing Blair arriving on the flight deck to find a dying Cobra, shows her giving him a PDA she had recovered from Hobbes with a recording of Paladin's T-Bomb briefing, captured presumably via bugging equipment that Hobbes had installed.
With the Behemoth info, Hobbes was able to transmit it to a waiting Kilrathi cloaked ship in sensor range (according to the novel IIRC), but this was no longer possible once he learned of the T-Bomb -- I can't recall if the novel mentions why; perhaps because the ship was no longer in range. Anyway, he had steal a ship as it was the only way to get the info to Thrakhath.
With the Behemoth info, Hobbes was able to transmit it to a waiting Kilrathi cloaked ship in sensor range (according to the novel IIRC), but this was no longer possible once he learned of the T-Bomb -- I can't recall if the novel mentions why; perhaps because the ship was no longer in range. Anyway, he had steal a ship as it was the only way to get the info to Thrakhath.
My guess is that Thrakath was so pompous and overconfident that he didn't see a small one-man fighter as a serious threat (where have we seen this before?) so he ordered his fleet to stand down, had his cousin escort him into orbit and intended to deal with Blair personally (STILL not learning his lesson from the last two times they engaged!)
Yes, the parallels between WC3 and Mark Hamill's other famous role in "A New Hope" have been pointed out before--a giant planet-busting gun that gets blown up by fighter-bombers before it can kill its prime target, and victory being won through a long trench run at the end of which the hero fires his missile at the ONE weak point that will make the entire place blow itself to bits. I half expected to hear Paladin's voice saying "use the Force, Blair!"
floundericiousMI
Commodore
at the least a wicked headache!
frostytheplebe
Seventh Part of the Seal
Among other things... but you are correct, when I refer to the Wake class, one example is the TCS Tarawa.
The TCS Agamemnon... i forget where i heard about her, but from what i remember, she was a Confed class Dreadnought.
CR- Overestimate? I had always viewed it as that the carrier #s were as follows
Wake- 4-5
Confederation: 1
Concordia: ... not too sure... 4 or 5 maybe?
Bengal: None
Ranger: 2-3
Jutland (assault carrier, replacing bengal): 2
Lexington: 2
All in all 18 carriers... if there is a more exact number, i would very much like to know what it is for my own benefit.
It's not faith, it's genetics!
floundericiousMI
Commodore
in WC canon...the ONLY confederation dreadnaught produced was the TCS Concordia. She was lost at Vespus months before the kilrah campaign.
I'm not certain of the status of the TCS Wolfhound(?)...another Bengal that fought at Vukar Tag.
Jutland is a class made up by the WC Saga fanmod guys, IIRC...the only canon mention of TCS Jutland is from End Run, I believe, which gave no specifics.
Did the Lexington-class even enter service before the end of the Kilrathi war? I thought they were new construction during WC4...the backbone carriers were Concordia class.
I'm not certain of the status of the TCS Wolfhound(?)...another Bengal that fought at Vukar Tag.
Jutland is a class made up by the WC Saga fanmod guys, IIRC...the only canon mention of TCS Jutland is from End Run, I believe, which gave no specifics.
Did the Lexington-class even enter service before the end of the Kilrathi war? I thought they were new construction during WC4...the backbone carriers were Concordia class.
Dyret
Super Carrot!
I don't think so... At least I think there was a TCS Confederation.
Death
gh0d (Administrator)
*BZZT*
Sorry, there's at least (IIRC) 5 ships of the class, of which we've personally seen 2 (Concordia and the CVS-14 in the WC2 box art).
Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
A keel is just part of a warship - there's a diagram that shows where the turrets he's talking about would go.
(The PTC is a weapon which *is* the keel of a warship - the turrets on the Behemoth would have been mounted on the existing keel).
Remember that the Concordia had been withdrawn from the front lines and sent to patrol 'safe sectors' after the Battle of Earth. Presumably her expert fighter pilots (including Hobbes, Maniac, Blair, Angel, etc. that we know of) were assigned elsewhere. This comes from the Armada manual.
Tolwyn assigned a lot of people to the Victory specifically *because* it was a ship no one cared about (including Hobbes, who had last served as a Wing Commander on the Wolfhound).
This is all non-canon. The TCS Agamemnon was a heavy cruiser from the Wing Commander IV novelization.
There was at least a TCS Confederation, and probably several more built between 2661 (the Concordia) and 2665 (when the cannon was removed from service).
I believe the Wolfhound survives End Run.
No TCS Jutland is ever mentioned in-continuity. THe name comes from the series bible.
Yes, Lexington-class refers to the TCS Lexington from Wing Commander Armada (the modified heavy carrier).
Re: how Thrakhath knows to look for Blair. From the WC3 novel:
"Lord Prince, the ground-based defenses have picked up three intruders.
Terran fighters matching the description of those engaged yesterday."
Thrakhath rose from his throne and stepped down from the dais. "The
ground defenses?" he demanded. "Is every one of my ship captains blind,
then?"
"No, Lord Prince," Melek said, voice quavering a little. "But the
Terrans . . . are entering the atmosphere. They came out of cloak almost
directly below our present orbit, descending at high speed."
"Scramble all available interceptors, Melek," Thrakhath commanded,
starting toward the door. "Including my own squadron. We will show them they
cannot defile the Homeworld with impunity!"
floundericiousMI
Commodore
You and LOAF seem to agree so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt...
Where did you get 5?! I've not played everything, but the Connie is pretty unique in all my experiences and all the reading?
I do believe that at least one of the Confederation-class dreadnoughts met its end when its PTC exploded, which is why the PTC was later used only as a last resort--recall Angel warning Tolwyn that they might blow themselves up when he commanded that the PTC be fired on an attacking vessel?
frostytheplebe
Seventh Part of the Seal
Now wait a minute... you're talking as though a Confed dreadnought could blow up if it used that gun... I dont see evidence of this... what i do see evidence of is that if its OVERUSED it could blow up the ship. Angel warned that the gun needed time to cool down before it could fire again.
ChrisReid
Super Soaker Collector / Administrator
No such destruction is ever mentioned anywhere. Kilrathi Saga just says it was decomissioned because of "continual problems."
Those are different things. Being able to kill Thrakhath at that point is a bug in the game - letting Hobbes escape with knowledge of the Temblor and still being able to drop the bomb is one of two major plot paths. The bio-team's recommendation was for a "shoot to kill" quarantine, not a quarantine for life, but that's a different issue again. You might be able to reconcile any differences between one source and another, but you wouldn't want to just invent a new scenario altogether and claim that's what would happen.
Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
Five is speculation, but I think it comes from the idea that there would be one each year (like the Tigerls Claw->Kipling) from 2660 to 2665.
The story about one of these ships actually exploding is non-canon - all we have is Angel's warning and a note in the Kilrathi Saga manual that the weapon was retired because of technical issues.
McGruff
Banned
Such a valuable weapon must only have been retired for damn serious technical issues. Heck, even if a carrier did explode because of its use, I would think they would be retained for use during life and death emergencies. If the Captain made the call that the risk involved in firing it outweighed the risk of not firing it - something like possible destruction vs almost certain destruction, a gun that can take out any known vessel with one shot would be a very good thing to have at your disposal.
Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
The Concordia was certainly still using hers after the retirement - my guess would be they just stopped building ships around them...
floundericiousMI
Commodore
oh...and then phase shield penetration aids appeared (WC3) so that normal weaps could wear down cap ship shields! :-P