Jason_Ryock
Vice Admiral
Eh...your talking about Tolwyn taking the fighter back with Kevin, yeah?
Actual Speed for ships
- Thread starter Kalfor
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Well, fighters would have a serious problem, most of all cause the Nav points are to limit the area they patrol, and not to indicate the spots they are patroling
so, you dont KNOW you have to go from one place to the other, cause you may find something on the way
anyway, the discussion on the speed, very good on the inputs, LOAF made a cleared explanation of what Iljun and I were considering, though, the fact that navs are shown in km and enemies in meters has nothing to do with it. They are shown that way because enemies are in dogfight range (where you need a more exact number for distance), while Navs are very far appart, and exact location in meters is irrelevant
I like the explanation on the Capship's tactical movement, adquiring this excessive speed (and making it more feasable), but the thing is they REALLY got to plan that very well, cause if you got to accelerate till a point, then decelerate there, specifically, you cant have ships launching or being recovered in case there is an attack, even though, again, at that speed, combat is a bit difficult anyway
Now, what would be the speed of such capships? I mean, if the fighters' speed would be the one listed (like 500kps for the ferret), the capship's listed would be just for comparisson? what about its top speed with scoops closed?
And Lord_Natk-something, yes, I am right. you can make the calculations if you want, really not that hard:
Distance divided by speed divided by 60 divided by 60 divided by 24 gives you how long in days it takes to cross that distance
to find the needed speed:
Desired time to be spent in hours, divide by 60, then by 60
Divide the distance by that number and you got KPS
Distances obviously got to be in Kilometers
And yes, Pluto is at, more specifically, 5.913.500.000 km of the sun, so that would be like the radius of the Solar System, making the diameter (obviously) nearly 12bi. Crossing the whole system in just a couple of days would need amazing speed like that
Distances from one orbiting body to another may vary depending on the shape of the planet's orbit and it position, so Earth to Mars is quite variable and could be from 78.000.000 to 378.000.000 km
- K
so, you dont KNOW you have to go from one place to the other, cause you may find something on the way
anyway, the discussion on the speed, very good on the inputs, LOAF made a cleared explanation of what Iljun and I were considering, though, the fact that navs are shown in km and enemies in meters has nothing to do with it. They are shown that way because enemies are in dogfight range (where you need a more exact number for distance), while Navs are very far appart, and exact location in meters is irrelevant
I like the explanation on the Capship's tactical movement, adquiring this excessive speed (and making it more feasable), but the thing is they REALLY got to plan that very well, cause if you got to accelerate till a point, then decelerate there, specifically, you cant have ships launching or being recovered in case there is an attack, even though, again, at that speed, combat is a bit difficult anyway
Now, what would be the speed of such capships? I mean, if the fighters' speed would be the one listed (like 500kps for the ferret), the capship's listed would be just for comparisson? what about its top speed with scoops closed?
And Lord_Natk-something, yes, I am right. you can make the calculations if you want, really not that hard:
Distance divided by speed divided by 60 divided by 60 divided by 24 gives you how long in days it takes to cross that distance
to find the needed speed:
Desired time to be spent in hours, divide by 60, then by 60
Divide the distance by that number and you got KPS
Distances obviously got to be in Kilometers
And yes, Pluto is at, more specifically, 5.913.500.000 km of the sun, so that would be like the radius of the Solar System, making the diameter (obviously) nearly 12bi. Crossing the whole system in just a couple of days would need amazing speed like that
Distances from one orbiting body to another may vary depending on the shape of the planet's orbit and it position, so Earth to Mars is quite variable and could be from 78.000.000 to 378.000.000 km
- K
Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
It's a symptom, not a cause -- when you're in a dogfight, you're traveling significantly slower than when you're moving from one place to another. The VDUs in WC1 and 2 show this well.
Fighter speeds listed are with scoops open -- fighters can travel much faster closed, too... but what's the point?
As for a top speed... I'd guess it's just physics -- you're limited by c and little else. Practically, your second barrier will be time. (The Tarawa in End Run got up to 10,000 kps in an hour or so, IIRC).
Lord_Nathrakh
Spaceman
teh fact is for a ship to travle at 540 BILLION KPS ud reach pluto in under 500th of a second, that just not possible, think about it man HUNDERS OF THOUSANDS TIMES FASTER THEN LIGHT galaxy would be easy half a day at the most
Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
Why are we talking about Pluto?
Narthrak, its actually million, not billion
my mistake, but it should be obvious when I stated "in about 40 hours" and not "in about 40 miliseconds"
Now, the number is wrong anyway. its not 540, but 150
I blame by sickness! Its funny that at the time I made that calc the other way around it worked several times. But then again, there is a reason why I got to study history in college and not math
150.000.000 kps to go from the sun to pluto in 40 hours
my mistake, but it should be obvious when I stated "in about 40 hours" and not "in about 40 miliseconds"
Now, the number is wrong anyway. its not 540, but 150
I blame by sickness! Its funny that at the time I made that calc the other way around it worked several times. But then again, there is a reason why I got to study history in college and not math
150.000.000 kps to go from the sun to pluto in 40 hours
Lord_Nathrakh
Spaceman
You know, its raining a lot, and Im sick. After been stuck at home for the whole day, I got bored enough to go make some calculations
What I realized is that the speed for ships in wc is simply too little for in system movement as fast as they are supposed to
Lets think a capship, going at, bleh, 200kps
as an idea of distance, say going from the sun to outside pluto's orbit, which is a about under 6.000.000.000 km away
As ship would take almost a year to cross that distance at 200kps!
For reference, it would take like 5-10 days to go from Earth to Mars
Of course its far faster than today's tech, duh
but it doesnt seem to fit at all with what its supposed to be in the games or books
The only think I can imagine is that the autopilot and/or going "scoops closed" gives the ship far greater speed
The thing is, for you to take, say, 40 hours, it would need to go at over 540 billion kps
Ill have to rethink how things work for my rpg... :/
THATS YOUR FIRST POST, U SAID BILLION......DONT GET SNIPPY WITH ME WHEN ITS YOUR MISTAKE, U ALSO SAID IT LATER ON 540 BILLION
What I realized is that the speed for ships in wc is simply too little for in system movement as fast as they are supposed to
Lets think a capship, going at, bleh, 200kps
as an idea of distance, say going from the sun to outside pluto's orbit, which is a about under 6.000.000.000 km away
As ship would take almost a year to cross that distance at 200kps!
For reference, it would take like 5-10 days to go from Earth to Mars
Of course its far faster than today's tech, duh
but it doesnt seem to fit at all with what its supposed to be in the games or books
The only think I can imagine is that the autopilot and/or going "scoops closed" gives the ship far greater speed
The thing is, for you to take, say, 40 hours, it would need to go at over 540 billion kps
Ill have to rethink how things work for my rpg... :/
THATS YOUR FIRST POST, U SAID BILLION......DONT GET SNIPPY WITH ME WHEN ITS YOUR MISTAKE, U ALSO SAID IT LATER ON 540 BILLION
Lord_Nathrakh
Spaceman
not being stupid just proving my point is all
he started getting defensive, so i gave him an example.
he started getting defensive, so i gave him an example.
Also, horribly confusing non-seperation of quotes. I thought the thread got stuck in some sort of time warp.Lord_Nathrakh
Spaceman
thast why i capped my typign and not his
You have to keep in mind that you aren't the only patrol being sent out. I'm assuming there are like 4 patrols minimum. Take WC1 and an elliptical patrol pattern for example, you would have one on each y axis flank and on on each z axis flank. They might get away with 2 patrols and adjust z axis accordingly to get a good scan of the patrol route. This patrol route takes you towards the sides of the Tigers Claw and then loops you up into the area that she's about to enter. I've always assumed this happens the same way on the other flank.Jason_Ryock said:
C-ya
Jason_Ryock
Vice Admiral
Your talking about running four patrols of at least two fighters each all the time. That's eight fighters out, plus your ready craft (4 more), your strike craft (of which at least one, if not two has to be prepped) and a combat air patrol/close in support group (4 more ships).
Can you now explain how the Cerberus keeps more then half it's fighters online all the time? Even if you assume the fighters never need maintenance, they do need to be reloaded and refueled, and you have to have pilots for them all, not to mention carrying fighters that can fill the roll out properly.
Something differant has to be done with the Light/Escort Carriers/Cruisers...what could it be?
[Edit about 30 seconds later]
I suppose that could be why we see the development of the Seahawk (AWACs) craft, it would extend some serious radar coverage. Any word on if the Hades-class cruisers carry AWACs, and if so, how many? They're about twice the size of a Devestator bomber...could they even launch through a conventional launch tube?
Can you now explain how the Cerberus keeps more then half it's fighters online all the time? Even if you assume the fighters never need maintenance, they do need to be reloaded and refueled, and you have to have pilots for them all, not to mention carrying fighters that can fill the roll out properly.
Something differant has to be done with the Light/Escort Carriers/Cruisers...what could it be?
[Edit about 30 seconds later]
I suppose that could be why we see the development of the Seahawk (AWACs) craft, it would extend some serious radar coverage. Any word on if the Hades-class cruisers carry AWACs, and if so, how many? They're about twice the size of a Devestator bomber...could they even launch through a conventional launch tube?
Starkey
Avenging Rooster
Jason_Ryock said:
It doesn´t keep half of its fighters up most of the time. The Cerberus has 30 fighters (6 Wasp, 6 Vampires, 6 Panthers, 6 Shrikes and 6 Devastators). What I wanted to know is how they manage to rely on only 6 pilots to fly all of them.
Lord_Nathrakh said:
Try the quote button. That would have saved me some minutes trying to understand what you did.
Jason_Ryock
Vice Admiral
If it flew Vipers suggested patrol pattern then it would.
Lord_Nathrakh
Spaceman
ok stary ill do it next time, though i would like to know how and where the quote button is
I'm assuming a full carrier crew with a SOP. I think that the Cerebus ony had 6 pilots because they were just testing everything out (Black Varients, Hades class carrier) and you wouldn't need a full complement, just the craft you were testing. If they expected 6 pilots to do everything on one carrier (not to mention putting the life of an extremely expensive capship on 6 pilots), they would burn out so fast you'd have to rotate new crew every couple of weeks (also not to mention the decline in combat effectiveness that would take place). This makes the Cerebus a special case (if I'm correct in my assumption).Jason_Ryock said:
Plus the Cerebus is not a defenseless carrier, it carries some major armament for a small ship, so you could cut down on patrols, gambling on your ability to handle an incoming strike/capship. I'm sure the patrols on the Cerebus are as optimum as possible with the amount of pilots they have.
C-ya
Er, Nath-bleh, maybe youre blind or something, or a very repressed kid who cant lead a normal conversation, but I said in my last post
and I even corrected myself on the wrong number even more further on. Why i was defensive and "snippy", whatever the hell that word means, I dont know
Anyway, on the actually, decent discussion going on
I didnt know the Cerberus has only 6 pilots, but it seems that if its so, its definitly a special case, probably because it was testing out the "Black Ops" ships, and they didnt have enough personnel available with that clearance/skill at the moment
Also, remember the hades is not a carrier, but a strike cruiser. the idea is basically a fast and heavy hitter ship with some fighter support, so its definitly not defenseless without fighters (but 6 pilots is still TOO low. They would probably have about 20)
On patrols, yes, the one we fly are not the only. WC1 and 2 show that very well as the briefing goes with "Halcyon/Angel gives out the other wing's patrol assignments, then..."
In a way that patrols cover the whole area around the BG, which technically would mean up and down too, but, as someone else mentioned before, the maps are flattened, just like the system maps, so and you cant be sure of exact position in the 3 vertices (I always forget which one is up...y?)
Kalfor said:
and I even corrected myself on the wrong number even more further on. Why i was defensive and "snippy", whatever the hell that word means, I dont know
Anyway, on the actually, decent discussion going on
I didnt know the Cerberus has only 6 pilots, but it seems that if its so, its definitly a special case, probably because it was testing out the "Black Ops" ships, and they didnt have enough personnel available with that clearance/skill at the moment
Also, remember the hades is not a carrier, but a strike cruiser. the idea is basically a fast and heavy hitter ship with some fighter support, so its definitly not defenseless without fighters (but 6 pilots is still TOO low. They would probably have about 20)
On patrols, yes, the one we fly are not the only. WC1 and 2 show that very well as the briefing goes with "Halcyon/Angel gives out the other wing's patrol assignments, then..."
In a way that patrols cover the whole area around the BG, which technically would mean up and down too, but, as someone else mentioned before, the maps are flattened, just like the system maps, so and you cant be sure of exact position in the 3 vertices (I always forget which one is up...y?)
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