Academy Manual Discussion - 2 interesting characters

[Dundradal]

While working on updating the fighter entries for WCPedia, LOAF and I got to talking about the Morningstar service entry date which led to a discussion of the Academy manual

Two things we noticed while trying to figure out a service entry date.

Colonel Jack A. Lombard - served with Maniac in the Gwynedd system when (shockingly enough) Maniac disregarded orders and flew off on his own. In the ensuing action Lombard was forced to eject and suffered damage to one eye and other injuries. This ended his flying career. He was then offered a teaching position at the Academy.

His brother was Bryan "Lightspeed" Lombard was killed a few months out of the Academy by Kilrathi utilizing the divide and conquer technique.

- We needed to pin down his service time with Maniac. When is Maniac there? Who is flying with? From where? etc.

His final mission is in Gwynedd. He saw a Ralatha destroy the TCS Viper in Gwynedd with AMGs. He loses a wingman to Sarthas in Gwynedd as well. He mentions fighting Khajja the Fang during the Vega Campaign. He flew with Hobbes at some point. He also flew with Angel at some point and was "separated at my request." When he could have been romantically involved with Angel could fall in the 10 year period that Blair was at InSys since the entry gives no frame of reference.

- An annoying fact...he is yet another Colonel whose backstory is just a wee bit too close to our famous Colonel Blair's.


Hajjnah - renowned Kilrathi scientist who defects to the TCS Viking "2 year ago" from the point of the manual (so 2667 if we assume manual is from 2669). He carries blueprints to the Jrathek and also confirms to Confed the existence of stealth technology. Although the manual entry mentions at that point the torpedo carrying Strakha is the only variant then known by Confed. The fighter variant seen in WC3 may not have been reported by Confed forces at the time of its writing.

His defection date matches Blair's own confirmation of the Strakha from the KS press release dated 2667.144

 

[Wedge009]

I remember those characters... did you reach any consensus on Lombard's service dates?

 

[Bandit LOAF]

There is one more fact about Colonel Lombard in the manual which helps date him, however broadly--he was a student at the Academy at the same time as Maniac: "During my years at the Academy, Maniac was one of the most colorful students there." (Before anyone makes the point, he can't mean it was while he was an instructor--since flying with Maniac as his wingman was what got him that job in the first place...) So, he's a contemporary of Maniac and Blair--either the same graduating class or one adjacent to it.

I will say that of all the Blair-clones, I like Lombard best... at the very least, he's the one was never *supposed* to be Blair in anyone's mind, he's just written from a very small universe perspective (of /course/ everyone knows Hobbes and had a relationship with Angel!). I like the backstory about losing his eye (like me!) and I like all the bits of the Academy manual that suggest he has a huge ego. Look at how he talks up the trainsim in his letter--since he took over it has "become the most important instructional feature of the Academy", "my otherwise spotloess record" and so forth. Also, if there's a better action name then 'Jack', I don't want to hear it.

I don't think we can get very close to a specific date, but we can elimiate some options. To start with, we should recognize that we just don't know how much time occured between the injury and his writing the manual. He recovered from his injuries, began teaching at the academy and then "eventually" took over the trainsim and THEN wrote what we're reading. That could be three months or it could be fifteen years.

We can eliminate the lower bound for flying with Maniac as a wingman, 2654, though, by virtue of the fact that he flew with Hobbes. Hobbes defects in '55, at which point Maniac has already been taken off the flight line, and isn't immediately a fighter pilot. Maniac, too, doesn't fly another combat tour until 2658 because of his own questionable mental state and then his first stint as a test pilot. So, there's nothing that requires Lombard to be yet another decorated Tiger's Claw veteran.

Then we have the references to Gwynedd. Gwynedd is the introductory system in Wing Commander II and also where the 'losing end series' happens. Lombard says three things about his service there: it's where he was shot down flying with Maniac (attacked by seven Jalkehi), he lost a wingman to a swarm of Sartha there and he watched the TCS Viper be destroyed by a Ralatha.

I think we can take a leap of faith, though, and say that this didn't happen between 2656 and 2665... because Blair and Shadow were there flying routine patrols that whole time. The Kilrathi arriving (in more limited numbers than described here) in Wing Commander II is treated like an unprecedented thing--they've made it this far, I was never supposed to have to fly this kind of mission, etc. I theorize, therefore, that Colonel Lombard (and Maniac) flew off a different carrier that fought in the Gwynedd system at some point after 2665.

(I will note that he says 'Gwynedd sector' for two of these and 'Gwynedd system' for only one (the Sartha). It's possible he's using 'Gwynedd sector' instead of 'Enigma sector' and might be referring to a much broader area... so, leave that door slightly ajar?)

So, when did Maniac fly combat missions after Wing Commander II but before Wing Commander III? We can figure that out! We know, from the Prophecy official guide, that he alternated tours between test pilot duties and carrier assignments from 2657 forward. We know that he began as a test pilot in 2657, that he was with FW36 on the Victory from 68-69 and that he was testing the Morningstar in 67. That suggests to me two options: his theoretical previous two combat tours in 2664-2665 and 2666-2667. The Kilrathi attack Gwynedd with greater force at some point, either in late 2665 (after Blair has transferred) or between 2666 and 2667, and Maniac's carrier is part of the defense. And *that* is where Lombard is wounded.

But what about... Hobbes and Angel? I would posit that Lombard served on the Concordia (or elsewhere, maybe they were all on a third ship... or two separate ships one with each) at some point in the 2656-2665 'dead zone' of the war's history. That's when he had the relationship with Angel (maybe--who knows what it really was) and when he flew with Hobbes and accepted him just like Blair.

Then when is the manual itself written? It has to be after mid-2667, since the Morningstar and Crossbow are in active service by that time... and before late-2668 since the Wraith isn't in service yet (and it is in Armada) (that suggests to me the earlier late-2665 date for the wounding, since Lombard needs some time to recover, teach and be put in charge of the trainsim...).

Then I think the lone reference to Academy in another story is actually in Fleet Action. Blair mentions trying out the new simulator during the year following End Run: "During that year he'd been stuck Earthside, assigned to the fleet war college for advanced training, finishing up with a brief stint at the Academy to run their latest holo combat simulator training program." It's not binding, but that's the intention. That would have been late 2667 to early 2668.

... but there's one more wrinkle. The manual mentions that the Kilrathi scientist defected 'two years ago' and that he confiremd the existence of the Strakha. Unless that was kept under wraps (and Tolwyn didn't know...) or he volunteered it well after he arrived, that puts the manual in 2669--two years after the Strakha were filmed by Blair.

So... that's that.

Some other thoughts:

* Here's a trick about the Academy manual for obsessive fans--don't skip over all the 'how to play the game' stuff. Since it's ostensibly written by Lombard for actual trainsim there are little nuggets of background material mixed in (for example, he mentions that cadets will have already taken an introductory course called Confederation and Kilrathi Ships).

* It may be worth noting that the only actual date mentioned in the booklet is wrong; he says the Tiger's Claw was destroyed by Strakha in 2654. That's when Wing Commander I (and a million other stories) took place, but the 'Claw was destroyed in early 2656.

 

[Dundradal]

But what about... Hobbes and Angel? I would posit that Lombard served on the Concordia (or elsewhere, maybe they were all on a third ship... or two separate ships one with each) at some point in the 2656-2665 'dead zone' of the war's history. That's when he had the relationship with Angel (maybe--who knows what it really was) and when he flew with Hobbes and accepted him just like Blair.

I found the Angel piece the most interesting since he was transferred away at his own request. Maybe somebody with an ego got shot down by Angel and didn't take it well?

Then when is the manual itself written? It has to be after mid-2667, since the Morningstar and Crossbow are in active service by that time... and before late-2668 since the Wraith isn't in service yet (and it is in Armada) (that suggests to me the earlier late-2665 date for the wounding, since Lombard needs some time to recover, teach and be put in charge of the trainsim...).

Then I think the lone reference to Academy in another story is actually in Fleet Action. Blair mentions trying out the new simulator during the year following End Run: "During that year he'd been stuck Earthside, assigned to the fleet war college for advanced training, finishing up with a brief stint at the Academy to run their latest holo combat simulator training program." It's not binding, but that's the intention. That would have been late 2667 to early 2668.

... but there's one more wrinkle. The manual mentions that the Kilrathi scientist defected 'two years ago' and that he confiremd the existence of the Strakha. Unless that was kept under wraps (and Tolwyn didn't know...) or he volunteered it well after he arrived, that puts the manual in 2669--two years after the Strakha were filmed by Blair.

And this is what threw me through the loop last night. Hajjnah's defection could of been kept under wraps (Tolwyn is a forward commander, not necessarily someone who gets briefed on everything...). He is a great character though, that had long since slipped my mind. Another interesting thing to place might be Hajjnah's defection. I'd be curious to know when it occurred in relation to the Tarawa raid.

So long story short (and great discussion long)...it would seem that the Morningstar enters into service mid-2667 prior to the Armistice. Which indicates a fast turnaround from testing in SO2 to becoming the primary anti-ship fighter.

 

[Quarto]

And this is what threw me through the loop last night. Hajjnah's defection could of been kept under wraps (Tolwyn is a forward commander, not necessarily someone who gets briefed on everything...). He is a great character though, that had long since slipped my mind. Another interesting thing to place might be Hajjnah's defection. I'd be curious to know when it occurred in relation to the Tarawa raid.

Ok, the next person who misspells "have" gets a punch in the nose. "Could of" really should be a capital crime.

As for the question itself - it definitely wouldn't be unusual to keep a defection secret, even at the cost of lives. I think it's actually freakishly odd that Hajjnah's defection is made public in a document that is 100% certain to sooner or later reach the Kilrathi. I'm sure that wasn't the intention of the person at Origin who wrote this manual, but looking at it from an in-universe perspective, this seems like some kind of attempt to put pressure on the Kilrathi. Kind of a "nyah, nyah, your scientist told us all about your plans!" moment. If the manual was written around the time of End Run, that would make quite a lot of sense - before End Run, Confed was under a lot of pressure.

But if Hajjnah defected in 2665, why didn't Tolwyn know about the stealth fighters? There are two possibilities. The first is that, for one reason or another, it was initially deemed undesireable to reveal that information. This kind of thing happened with Enigma in WWII - at various points the Allies had to sit on their thumbs and ignore information that could prevent u-boat attacks, in order not to reveal that they'd cracked the code. There is a second possibility, though - namely, that Hajjnah did not defect. It could be that he was captured or killed, revealing much less or no information at all, and claiming that he was captured allowed Confed to pretend to know more than they did know. After the Concordia's success at K'tithrak Mang, they could use this to put additional pressure on Prince Thrakhath - imagine the Emperor finding out that not only did Thrakhath's "toys" fail to do the job, but that in fact Confed knew all along about those super-secret stealth fighters due to a security failure.

 

[Wedge009]

Ok, the next person who misspells "have" gets a punch in the nose. "Could of" really should be a capital crime.

Heh heh. And I thought I was pedantic about spelling and grammar. While we're at it, we should educate people on the proper use of apostrophes and the difference between 'then' and 'than', among numerous other common errors.

As for the actual discussion, this is all too in-depth for me to take in with the limited time I have. But it all looks quite interesting, I must say.

 

[Dundradal]

Ok, the next person who misspells "have" gets a punch in the nose. "Could of" really should be a capital crime.

Iiiiyyyyaaaaaiii! Yeah I see the mistake.

Wedge, nevermind those simple mistakes, I want to kill whoever at MS thought that Word should always replace commas with semi colons!

As for the question itself - it definitely wouldn't be unusual to keep a defection secret, even at the cost of lives. I think it's actually freakishly odd that Hajjnah's defection is made public in a document that is 100% certain to sooner or later reach the Kilrathi. I'm sure that wasn't the intention of the person at Origin who wrote this manual, but looking at it from an in-universe perspective, this seems like some kind of attempt to put pressure on the Kilrathi. Kind of a "nyah, nyah, your scientist told us all about your plans!" moment. If the manual was written around the time of End Run, that would make quite a lot of sense - before End Run, Confed was under a lot of pressure.

I was thinking about it in relation to all the top Kilrathi scientists that were killed during the Tarawa raid. Did the raid spur Hajjnah to defect? Did he get out just in time?

 

[Quarto]

Heh heh. And I thought I was pedantic about spelling and grammar. While we're at it, we should educate people on the proper use of apostrophes and the difference between 'then' and 'than', among numerous other common errors.

Well, the thing is, those others are exactly that - common errors. But writing "of" instead of "have" is in the same category as replacing "for" with "4" and "you" with "u". It's ugly, sloppy, and totally counter-intuitive - it's a thing people commonly do, but it's not a common mistake.

I was thinking about it in relation to all the top Kilrathi scientists that were killed during the Tarawa raid. Did the raid spur Hajjnah to defect? Did he get out just in time?

Honestly, I don't really see how it would. The Tarawa raid was damaging - but it wasn't the kind of event that would persuade someone to change sides.

 

[Bandit LOAF]

Well, the thing is, those others are exactly that - common errors. But writing "of" instead of "have" is in the same category as replacing "for" with "4" and "you" with "u". It's ugly, sloppy, and totally counter-intuitive - it's a thing people commonly do, but it's not a common mistake.

Of course it's a mistake--no one is intentionally writing 'could of' as a short form of 'could have'... they're doing it because they don't realize it's the wrong expression.

In fact it's likely the *opposite* of '4' and 'u'--it's someone who is familiar with the contraction "could've" and is incorrectly attempting to write it out formally.

 

[Iceblade]

Sounds more like one of those southern pronunciations where could've gets drawled out such that it actually sounds like two words (namely: could of). I've had similar issues such as the slurring of the phrase "for all intents and purposes" where it sounds like "for all intensive purposes." Never thought about it before I was corrected, but the in-error phrase makes absolutely no sense.

Anyway, these language problems are annoying and sometimes get trapped in our language boxs from an early age...so it can be rather difficult for people to catch in their writing later in life unless they proofread their writing...posts are rarely proofread that close though. Oh well.

 

[Wedge009]

It's not just restricted to the southern United States, it's a common English error. I remember seeing it highlighted in primary school classrooms both in the UK and Australia - it's certainly not characteristic of the horrible Internet-style spelling habits so many people fall into.

On the other hand, I can see how people might mistake the expression for 'intensive purposes', but in my experience (which I know is by no means universal), it's not a very common error I've seen in writing.

Yes, I realise this is major topic drift, but I haven't seen one of those for a while.

 

[Bob McDob]

Yes, I realise this is major topic drift, but I haven't seen one of those for a while.

Ah, the days when you'd open up threads and find the discussion had turned to something totally unrelated almost every time

 

[Wedge009]

Whoa, Bob. Another blast from the past.

 

[Dundradal]

Honestly, I don't really see how it would. The Tarawa raid was damaging - but it wasn't the kind of event that would persuade someone to change sides.

Normally I would agree with you, wait wait what am I saying? We never agree

This is what made me post the question:

We know that not every Kilrathi is the perfect "warrior." That there are those are are "substandard" or lack the warrior ethos. We know almost nothing about Hajjnah except that he worked on two top projects and defected at some point in 2667.

Maybe Hajjnah had a sharp mind, but not the spirit of a Kilrathi? Perhaps he just avoided death when the Tarawa raided through Kilrah (I'm thinking of the line in ER mentioning the team of top scientists being killed during the raid) and thought that maybe the ticket was up?

Granted I'm making some huge assumptions above, but I thought it something to think about. I mean how often do we have Kilrathi defectors and what have been their motivations? The reason has typically been a disillusionment with the Empire. Perhaps a terran raid of the Kilrah system was what did it for him.

 

[Bandit LOAF]

Welcome back, Bob! We've really missed you. So much has changed in the last two years. I got a new shirt and... I guess that's the only real change.

Maybe Hajjnah had a sharp mind, but not the spirit of a Kilrathi? Perhaps he just avoided death when the Tarawa raided through Kilrah (I'm thinking of the line in ER mentioning the team of top scientists being killed during the raid) and thought that maybe the ticket was up?

This is all idle speculation outside of the text, of course, but here are a pair of theories that could expand on his story:

- It doesn't have to be the Tarawa raid in particular so much as the ensuing Confederation focus on 'behind the lines' raiding that might have provoked a 'Kilrathi scientist' into switching sides when possible. Suddenly the Confederation is specifically targeting the infrastructure that he's part of instead of fighting for colonies on the front lines.

- Perhaps he isn't a 'scientist of the Kilrathi race' so much as a 'scientist for the Kilrathi'--he could be some sort of slave, like the Varni that developed the torpedoes in Action Stations. The name isn't specifically Kilrathi.

 

[Dundradal]

Welcome back, Bob! We've really missed you. So much has changed in the last two years. I got a new shirt and... I guess that's the only real change.

You forgot that kick ass avatar Howard made for you.

This is all idle speculation outside of the text, of course, but here are a pair of theories that could expand on his story:

- It doesn't have to be the Tarawa raid in particular so much as the ensuing Confederation focus on 'behind the lines' raiding that might have provoked a 'Kilrathi scientist' into switching sides when possible. Suddenly the Confederation is specifically targeting the infrastructure that he's part of instead of fighting for colonies on the front lines.

I think this would make sense if it was the case. I found myself trying to find a reason justifying such a top scientist defecting so late in the war.

- Perhaps he isn't a 'scientist of the Kilrathi race' so much as a 'scientist for the Kilrathi'--he could be some sort of slave, like the Varni that developed the torpedoes in Action Stations. The name isn't specifically Kilrathi.

Perhaps, it certainly wouldn't be out of the ordinary for the Kilrathi. Even the counter argument about the high tech projects he was working won't hold water, since, as you mention, the Varni worked on torpedoes.

Either way, he's an interesting side character.

 

[Madman]

So long story short (and great discussion long)...it would seem that the Morningstar enters into service mid-2667 prior to the Armistice. Which indicates a fast turnaround from testing in SO2 to becoming the primary anti-ship fighter.

Does it? the testing in SO2, being frontline, suggests that the morningstar is almost complete (think excalibur in wc3), maniac suggests that the testing has been going on some time, and the only real issue that seems to remain is the jump drive. It seems to me reasonable that the so2 appearance of the morningstar is the final test phas before rollout to the fleet, which means that a year/2 timescale there is okay if the morningstar has only JUST become the main frontline heavy fighter as the academy manual seems to suggest.


Also I feel that it's less important WHY Hajjnah defected, but why the information was held back.

if his defection is post endrun: Tarawa demonstrated that the confederation was willing to take the fight to Kilrah and earnt the humans a lot of respect while doing it. End run (and especially Fleet action) really hammer home the dissillusionment with the Emperor and Thrakhath's way of running the war so it's not so odd that someone defects.

If he defected before those events then maybe he's following in the footsteps of Ralgha and for whatever reason believes that the confederation deserves a sporting chance?

We also don't know how much he gave the confederation, just that he confirmed the strakha's existence.

The question of why the information is with-held is a more potent one. Tolwyn is untrusting of the "stealth fighter" story within wc2 (ignoring the tigers claw for the moment) but he's not as anti the idea as earlier (ie in the intro dealing with the tigers claw), I remember being surprised that he was as happy to accept the story when he did as he was (if you catch my drift!). Maybe he knows about the possibility but until the confirmation that the strakha is frontline he is unwilling to believe blair (who he dislikes anyway).

Finally the KS manual quote is not an official report, it's a newspaper clipping - stressing that this is simply the revelation to the public and definitely NOT the revelation to the military at large.

The last issue is that of the wraith - while the wraiths presence can be seen as an upper bound on when academy happens, it's presence on the lexington cannot be used as such - since the lexington is an experimental ship anyway, i see no reason why a prototype wing of wraiths cannot be included in her loadout. She's not coming back anyway so there's no requirement for her to be packing confed standard loadouts. (secret ops missions have cutting edge stuff!) meaning that the time-line for the wraith can be slipped a little (at most a year admittedly)

 

[ChrisReid]

Does it? the testing in SO2, being frontline, suggests that the morningstar is almost complete (think excalibur in wc3), maniac suggests that the testing has been going on some time, and the only real issue that seems to remain is the jump drive. It seems to me reasonable that the so2 appearance of the morningstar is the final test phas before rollout to the fleet, which means that a year/2 timescale there is okay if the morningstar has only JUST become the main frontline heavy fighter as the academy manual seems to suggest.

There's quite a few examples where we see 'experimental' fighters just prior to full introduction, and I think this is pretty reasonable (the other really big one are the test Rapiers on the Tiger's Claw). It can be compared to the military's Initial Operating Capability threshold today: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Initial_operating_capability Even when a new craft is basically "done," it's still considered a test article until a minimum number are built, sufficient crews are trained on its operation, spare parts have been distributed, etc. For safety reasons (and until all the elements are in place that represent IOC), the decision could be made to hold off from introducing something new to the front line, but I wouldn't be surprised to see advance squadrons rushed out in the Kilrathi War. It might be that what we see are the units just prior to IOC (undergoing final field testing) rather than bonafide "prototypes."

The last issue is that of the wraith - while the wraiths presence can be seen as an upper bound on when academy happens, it's presence on the lexington cannot be used as such - since the lexington is an experimental ship anyway, i see no reason why a prototype wing of wraiths cannot be included in her loadout.

Recall how Voices of War presents its ships. The Kilrathi have prepared a report listing the fighters most likely to be encountered in the affected sectors (and vice versa), which includes the Wraith. Then if you play as the Kilrathi, on your way to Earth you encounter (and destroy) eleven different Terran carriers that operate Wraiths.

 

[Madman]

hmm, so the wraith effectively IS frontline by then - i'm a little upset by that - since we never see it again after armada and academy and it's by far my favourite ship

 

[ChrisReid]

hmm, so the wraith effectively IS frontline by then - i'm a little upset by that - since we never see it again after armada and academy and it's by far my favourite ship

Just wait until the year 2701, and they're available for civilian purchase! https://cdn.wcnews.com/newestshots/full/ssp57.PNG

Used ships available! Navy surplus means your lucky day! Fighters? F-36 Hornet, F-38 Talon, F-71 Stiletto, F-98 Phantom, F-95 Morningstar, F-97 Wraith! Bombers? A-14 Raptor, A-15 Gladius, even A-20 Banshee! Collectibles and like new! Contact crazyjoe@shipsmustgo.corporation