A discussion on the true nature of the Nephilim

I just don't understand why people always seem to misunderstand 'unaligned' and/or 'non-aligned' :).
Here is an example -
Communist States (Soviet Bloc)
Capitalist States (NATO)
Non-Aligned Movement (states which wish to remain unaligned in the Cold War)

What I'm trying to say is that 'non-aligned' is not the same as 'not on our side'. It's actually more like 'neutral'.

[Edited by Quarto on 05-31-2001 at 21:46]
 
I'm not saying that there aren't such things as superior pilots, I'm saying that we shouldn't even have been able to get through their shields. If they were that far ahead of us, it should have been like a kid with a slingshot against a tank.
 
The shield emitters are *extra* shields, for protecting the special areas on the ship -- bridge, engines, etc...

I don't think there's any reason to assume that advanced technology means we can't hurt them *at all*... they're not *that* advanced...
 
Originally posted by TC
[The Flashpak] doesn't really have any spectacular advantages over torpedoes.
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Except for incinerating the crew in a horrible way, I guess. It's a weapon you'd use to kill the all the crew, without allowing for survivors.
 
please, let's not get into THIS discussion again :)

(the last one I saw about flashpak started talking about morality and then went around in a constant circle from there)
 
As far as I can see, the only advantage a torpedo has over a flash pak, is that it can actually penetrate the new shields/armor. :)
 
The Flashpack is a tool. A tool can never have a morality. (End of debate). :)

Any way, torpedos require more skill, and thus better. :)
 
I don't have the time and/or patience to read the whole thread...from what I know, it's about the Bug capships and why they go down so easily.

Actually, big dreadnought ships have a reputation for going down, if not easily. Why?

BECAUSE THEY'RE SO FREAKIN' BIG!!!!!
(Not to mention the fact captains seem to think they can take on the entire fleet with them)

I rest my case.
 
Huge dreadnoughts are a morale boost for the faction which owns the dreadnought, and morale loss when they are neutralised. And they generally can take on large fleets - with appropriate escorts, of course.
 
True, true. Which is why I believe in building new battleships, and not selling them to Saddam Hussein. :) But enough about me...
 
Have you never heard of "the bigger they are the harder they fall?"
I mean honestly the Tiamat wasn't that hard to get rid of, the Kilrathi sank the Behemoth with a few well placed torps and waxed Concordia, while a single Confed carrier got the Sivar (WC1) dreadnought.
We need lots of little carriers like the Victory. That way we can cover a lot of ground and it doesn't matter if we lose a few as we inevitably will during wartime.
 
There's no gravity in space. ;)

But really, such large ships keep the WCU interesting, and they only die when the story people tell them to.
 
With all due respect Major General sir. You can impress the politicians with your giant ships, convince them that they're getting something that's dramatic for the people, while at the same time value for money. But as a front line Captain I can tell you that we beat off the Kilrathi and the bugs with fighters, not big ass ships. If we deploy more smaller carriers, we'll be able to field more such vessals, which would undoubtedly add up to more fighters. Not only that, the psychological impact of losing a few would be less then watching the Big B go down a second time. And it'd undoubtedly be cheaper. Your using the big ships just to justify a bigger budget aren't you? ;) :)
 
Hey, hey, hey! Since when did I say that we should only use dreadnoughts? From a 'realistic' perspective, I definitely agree with you, but this is the WCU - dreadnoughts are built and destroyed all the time. ;)
 
Originally posted by Penguin
With all due respect Major General sir. You can impress the politicians with your giant ships, convince them that they're getting something that's dramatic for the people, while at the same time value for money. But as a front line Captain I can tell you that we beat off the Kilrathi and the bugs with fighters, not big ass ships. If we deploy more smaller carriers, we'll be able to field more such vessals, which would undoubtedly add up to more fighters. Not only that, the psychological impact of losing a few would be less then watching the Big B go down a second time. And it'd undoubtedly be cheaper. Your using the big ships just to justify a bigger budget aren't you? ;) :)
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But quatity isn´t better than quality. Shure if we had more ships we could defend vast space and make surgigcal strikes to enemy supply lines, but i think the problem with CVE was that it still required trained personell and if here in I don´t know what it costs in US, but here in Finland one fighterpilot trained costs one million markkas
(about 200 000 USD or something like that) so they aren´t that cheap plus as stated
in FA, full complement of fighters cost almoust as much as
Light carrier! Also we don´t have enough pilots beacuse they had to be good.Fighter pilots do have superior reflecses and good intelligence when compared to normal people.
And if you think how many CVE:s could you build with same resources that heavy carrier needs, you can see that CVE:s need more personell in total.
The downside of CVE:s and light ships are that you have to be prepared to lose them and much. Just look at losses that
CVE:s took in WW2. And then agan British carrier HMS Illustrious took 4 hits from 500kg bombs and couple of 250kg:s but still wouldn´t go down. Armoured flight deck saved the carrier.
Kilrathi used mass tactics, and couldn´t win Confederation.
In WW2 war between Russian and Finland ended with draw although Russian had population of 153 million and Finland had population 4 million! So mass tactics don´t work and
smaller good quality force is only good way to fight the war.
So ships sizes should be adjusted to availble resources and amout of military personell. Its always a tradeoff and Hades quick strike cruiser sounds like good idea, beacuse it is well shielded and carries small good quality fighter complement.
 
Originally posted by Meson
The Flashpack is a tool. A tool can never have a morality. (End of debate). :)
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That... doesn't make sense at all... I mean, of all the things I've heard in the last week, that one makes the absolute least sense of any of them. Including Ladiesman's thinking that TOlwyn was trying to invade Earth.

Anyhow, big ships definately have their places -- the majority of the Confed and Kilrathi fleets are destroyers and cruisers and other line ships... a dreadnought is an excellent weapon against them. Put up against multiple air wings, a heavy ship can have trouble -- but the same fighters that can whack the Agahn Ras Sivar can just as easily whack a Ranger (well... far *more* easily).
 
Originally posted by Nep Parth
An "artificial" religion? How would that be different than a normal religion?
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Once accepted, it would be no different. I meant it's
origin: Given by another group of natural beings who
have no belief in it themselves, but give it in order
to modify the behavior of the target group. Thus, it
is strictly a social control mechanism and nothing
more. As opposed to what I would call a "natural"
religion, meaning either 1) It really *was* given
by *real* supernatural beings or 2) Invented by the
members of the target group to explain the world around
them, by people who actually *believe* it.


I think that, as we don't see any other races besides the Nephilim...and we don't have any evidence of other races...we can we assume that others control them?
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They call themselves the "Aligned Peoples", which
implies more than one race. It is *possible* that
the Nephilem are the Master Species, but I believe not.
Why? Because if I were in the business of getting
other species to do my fighting for me (like, as
I proposed, they tried to do with the Kilrathi), I would
hardly stop with only one. Nor would I send my own people
to do a job a soldier caste could do just as well. Thus,
I suspect that the Bugs are the Soldiers, not the Brains,
of the Aligned Peoples. They certainly cultivate a
warrior ethos, like the Kilrathi.


We can't assume that there aren't other races (that control them), but we also can't assume that there are.
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Correct. I am speculating.


Also: Quarto, I think you're making a distinction without
a difference when you describe non-aligned as "neutral".
Since the AP's response to non-aligned species seems
to be to exterminate them, their understanding of
"neutrality" seems to be quite different from ours.

I don't think they divide the world into "Friends",
"Enemies" and "Neutral" but into "Strong" and "Weak". Species that do not prove themselves strong are destroyed.

Respectfully,

Brian P.
 
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