A Concept: Nimitz Class Heavy Carrier

Sylvester

Vice Admiral
Design on the Nimitz class began in mid 2667 as a large fleet command carrier to finally choke the life out of the Kilrathi war effort and counter their advantage in carriers. When the false peace was signed in 2668, the design plans were scrapped. After hostilities were resumed, construction was to commence on one unit but was cancelled in favor of the cheaper and easier to build Vesuvius class design. The vessel boasts seven launch bays to limit damage to flight capabilities and has forty laser mounts to mount a formidible defense. Its massive length allowed for a large amount of stores to be carried and though rather slow with a top speed of 100 kps, the ship was heavily armoured to repel attack, though its shields only have the equivalent strength of the Lexington class. Its offensive weapons include three AMG turrets and half a dozen torpedo tubes. Details on its statistics can be found in the following attachment. I am modelling the carrier design as we speak and it should be ready by next week.

Note, the chart templates seen on the attachment are courtesy of fleet tactics.
 

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My question, with such a sizeable disadvantage in carrier numbers anyways, why would Confleet start design on a larger vessel? Seems they'd be more focused on combat effective CVEs or finding corners to cut to churn out a couple more Jutland's every now and then.

I have this problem whenever a new "supership" is introduced into a game. Take Thrak's flag from WC3. Sure, it would be able to act on its own and pretty much roll any engagement, but considering the vast interstellar distances of this war, how much good would small numbers of exceptionally powerful ships be? They would also be relatively easy to track and demand unheard of amounts of maintenence. Imagine the bitch of having to fix an engine nozzle, or counter structural damage. Seems like, with a ship that size, the defender could pretty much choose the terms of engagement. Oh well, I'm probably at least a little wrong here.
 
The ship isn't meant as a supership really. Since the Vesuvius was introduced in 2673, her construction must of begun right before the end of the war. This ship was an alternative design that lost to the Vesuvius in the long run because Confed wanted something cheaper after the war ended. She actually isn't as well armed as the Vesuvius but she has better armor and shields, plus more launch bays.
 
The ship reminds me of the Kilrathi Hakaga class. Were you trying to create a Confederation answer to the Hakaga?
 
have this problem whenever a new "supership" is introduced into a game. Take Thrak's flag from WC3. Sure, it would be able to act on its own and pretty much roll any engagement, but considering the vast interstellar distances of this war, how much good would small numbers of exceptionally powerful ships be? They would also be relatively easy to track and demand unheard of amounts of maintenence. Imagine the bitch of having to fix an engine nozzle, or counter structural damage. Seems like, with a ship that size, the defender could pretty much choose the terms of engagement.

It gives you something to do, to defend it, hell i never understood why carriers
didn't jump out to come back and retreive their fighters later after the battle was done.....
 
thats assuming that the carrier has a safe place to jump to.

otherwise you have an uprotected carrier, and a bunch of fighters alone in a system...
 
come on, you let your heavy fighters and bombers punch out your enemy and leave your light and medium onboard for defense, it's not that hard.
 
BenoitBrunet2 said:
Take Thrak's flag from WC3. Sure, it would be able to act on its own and pretty much roll any engagement, but considering the vast interstellar distances of this war, how much good would small numbers of exceptionally powerful ships be? They would also be relatively easy to track and demand unheard of amounts of maintenence. Imagine the bitch of having to fix an engine nozzle, or counter structural damage. Seems like, with a ship that size, the defender could pretty much choose the terms of engagement. Oh well, I'm probably at least a little wrong here.

Well, from a tactical standpoint, wouldn't a large ship like a WC3 Kilrathi dreadnought be ideal for mowing down static installations like orbital shipyards, starbases, etc? The ship could bring overwhelming firepower to bear on any thing not fast enough to run away from it. I mean sure, the thing would be easy to track, but that could be used tactically too, especially in the WC3 era, when Confed had no ship even close to comparable to the Kilrathi dreadnought- (at least not that I'm aware of) Essentially, Confed would have to cobble together a rather large fleet to whereever they thought a dreadnought was going to hit, which probably would leave other nearby targets open to hit and run attacks by small groups of non-supersized Kilrathi Cap-ships.
 
Very true, but the advantage in that situation is due in large part to the inherent Kilrathi numerical superiority. With Confed hurting the way it is during WC3, a particularly large group of Kilrathi carriers of the regular variety would have the same effect. Several carriers, in fact, might present a larger problem, given that once they deployed in system, they would not allow for a focused assault. At least a dreadnaught assault presents Confed forces with a single target.
 
BenoitBrunet2 said:
At least a dreadnaught assault presents Confed forces with a single target.
That is why the whole supership idea is useless. Especially if a group of bombers could take one out. I'd rather have a 100 Excaliburs and Longbows each launched from a hanger with an engine than a massive Dreadnought/Supership. Just think about what kind of a blow it would be to lose one of those. Confed barely won the war after the destruction of the Bohemoth. Also, it can't be in more than one place. If it had to defend anything, you could simply split up your forces and attack from two different sides. It would have to turn and fight one group, leaving the target open to attack. The big ship idea just doesn't work.
 
Unless you've got a massive numerical superiority on top of it. In which case the defender's ability to predict and dictate terms of combat is effectively washed out and the enemy is able to exploit opened axis of attack. Also, with a defense-first mentality such as Confed had, the dreadnought would be an effective Anvil. Launch an attack on a civilian center, force Confleet to respond en masse and then raid everywhere else you could get your ships into. That would be the ultimate lose/lose scenario presented by Thrakth's flag, a military and political nightmare all wrapped into one fur-begotten package.
 
The main reasoning behind large ships like dreadnoughts, IIRC, is that they're able to carry more guns, bigger guns, or better shields and armor than anything else out there. That's why battleships were popular before the start of the Kilrathi war - a larger hull let you hold bigger reactors, which meant tougher shields and bigger guns. The Vesuvius' claim to fame was that it was a HUGE carrier, which meant it could dish out as much damage as a task force all by its lonesome... and its new armor and shields meant it was practically invulnerable to normal bomber attacks, much as the Kilrathi Dreadnought of Thrakath's was in WC3. I recall that the Vesuvius itself had to be killed from the inside, because it was so well armored and shielded otherwise... but this is an advantage that could be countered by improved torpedoes.

I honestly don't see the reasoning behind having the Nimitz-class carrier - at that point, Confed's got few enough shipyards to turn out NORMAL carriers, much less resource-intensive monsters like this one, which appear almost to be a ripoff of the Vesuvius in stats, except for the 'seven launch bays', which seems more to be a ripoff of the Midway in Prophecy. And I don't recall them having any 'unconventional' designs (that is, designs not based off pre-War carriers) kicking around during the war, or even until about 15 years after it was all over. The Tiger's Claw probably had the most launch and landing bays of any carrier that comes to mind, and they had.. four of them, maybe? I don't see a design like this coming out of Confed labs, not when they were hurting for resources and ships, and thus didn't have all that much time to spend on developing a whole new design concept, much less retooling a shipyard (a process that takes at least 5 years, IIRC_ to produce something like this.

The Vesuvius' more conventional design would probably win points in any evaluations of the two competing projects... though even that took some improvements based off of Kilrathi designs, post-War. The trend towards centralization in the post-Kilrathi War fleet was based on the idea that it'd be easier to support single hulls that carried a lot of fighters, versus multiple carriers; this is useful in peacetime, but in wartime would prove something of a liability as well, at least on the tactical scale.

Even the Midway strikes a better balance than this carrier does, IMO, if only because they've stuck to a very basic set of design concepts (carries several wings of fighters and bombers, is the nucleus of a task force in wartime or can be relatively self-sufficient in peacetime). This is like taking the Kitchen Sink approach to ship design - it seems to be designed so it can kill capships BY ITSELF via the AMGs and torpedoes, PLUS it carries 400 fighters. The 20 torpedoes means you have five loads per tube, which renders those tubes relatively useless after you expend all that ammunition in the first fight you get into. It's more heavily armed than even the Vesuvius is, relatively speaking, and that ship carried an ungodly amount of anti-capship weapons for a carrier. Yet it's almost as fast and well-armored as the Vesuvius, yet is somehow lighter despite its equally large fighter complement and heavier weapons loadout... and I should point out that the total in the bottom of the Nimitz description of 320+20 support craft does not match the 400+30 support craft that was listed as the number of spacecraft it carried in the table above.

I can see why Confed went with the Vesuvius. :D
 
I'm a firm believer in the philosophy: If they can build it, we can blow it up. Invulnerable is a temporary condition. Somebody will eventually figure out something to hit that ship hard enough to kill it, and something tells me it won't be able to leap all nimbly bimbly out of the way.
 
This makes me think of the "THIS PWNS TEH PLUNKET!!!11one!" mentality. Ease back the throttle there chief, and think about the history, situation, and craft of the day. This is frickin Midway BC.
 
Being honest? I'd find the idea of a smaller, faster carrier with fewer fighters than this monster but a bit more speed and a little punch for getting out of trouble to be far more intriguing than this bastard love-child of a Vesuvius and a Midway. Confed already HAS several supercarrier designs floating about (Vesuvius and Midway) after the War. If you're going for a post-war design, maybe you could look at something to fill the gaps? Smaller, somewhat more expendable carriers for situations that don't require a full 400-fighter or 252-fighter force? The spiritual descendants of the escort carrier, as it were?

Not every situation in peacetime calls for a huge hammer, and these sorts of ships can be useful in war situations, especially if this ship was designed during the last few years of the Kilrathi War. The Hades-class ships of WC:SO help fill this role, somewhat, though a dedicated carrier with speed and a LITTLE firepower would probably do as well, for the non Special Ops roles.
 
Damnit people. Read the Post! This design was never meant to be built, it was a competing design to the Vesuvius that lost out to it because it cost more. Carriers take a minimum of four years to build. Since the Vesuvius came online in 2673, her construction must of began before the Kilrathi war ended. Remember, this is a concept, and If you notice, its nowhere near as heavily armed as the Vesuvius, but it has better armor and shields, plus the addition of auxillary launch bays. The Vesuvius has FOURTEEN dual antimatter guns, my ship has FOUR. The Vesuvius also has SIXTEEN mass drivers, my ship has none. The only category in which my ship has more offensive firepower is in the torpedo tubes. The Vesuvius has two, the Nimitz has six. The armament of my ship is mostly heavy dual lasers for point defense work. Where its advantages are better armor and shields than the Vesuvius. Its not a dreadnought, just a huge carrier. The concept of multiple launch bays is borrowed from the Lexington class of ship. Additionally, the ship was never meant to fight alone, a few cruisers and destroyers would always be present.

Oh and one more note, i'm increasing the top speed to 125 kps. It makes no sense that a ship forty-thousand tonnes lighter than the Vesuvius can't go just a little bit slower. (Nimitz: 125 Vesuvius: 150.) I always found the Vesuvius to be the supership, especially with Y/P/R rates that rival those of the sheffield class destroyer.

And the table was an error.
 
I sincerelly think that the specs make no sense. The weaknesses and strenghts are kinda random. Well, you can design it however you like, just don't expect us to love it.
 
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