Wing Commander Prophecy: Boom Boom recipe

Quarto said:
Seriously, Earthworm, how could anyone forget that they've talked to a friggin' alien?
In a world were aliens aren't uncomon....


Why? Don't you read SF? Don't you watch SF movies? Is it really possible for you to fail to notice that almost every single government in SF is called either a Confederation or a Federation?
But is it so strange to assume that a WC game would mean a Confederation from WC games?

And as you may know, P2 for most of its production time was known simply as Darkening. Thus, they weren't making a Privateer game. Ergo, it need not have been the same Confed from WC.
When the started it was to be a Privateer game, which was later changed to just The Darkening, and than changed back to Privateer.

As you said, 100 years is plenty enough time for contact.
Doesn't mean that ships will be traveling between Confed and Tri-Systems every day.

Ah, but you forget the wonder of computers. It's not the people who would be identifying the ship, but the computers. They don't forget. And certainly, nobody would be foolish enough to remove old ships specs from computers.
If you have a new comp, it could certainly happen. Also, people may not think of even checking for ships that old.

Where's my Fission cannon, Earthworm?
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Where's my Mace/Starburst/Coneburst missile in Prophecy Quarto?
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Why can just about all P2 ships barely reach 440kps?
Why is the Centurion the only fighter in Priv which you can own that can fly at 1000 KPS on full burners?

Where's my cloaking device,
Where's the cloacking device in Prophecy? There are weapons and some different ways of making cloacking useless.

Did all this stuff just disappear?
These things disappeared just as much as they did from the main series.

I figured you were about to tell me that maybe Confed didn't allow trading with the Tri-System. So, I figured I'd immediately mention the smugglers, so that a trade blockade couldn't be used as an excuse for lack of Confed tech in P2. Apparently, it worked
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Except... there.... is.... no lack of Confed tech in P2 AFAWK.



[This message has been edited by Earthworm (edited May 06, 2000).]
 
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There is confed tech in the Tri-system. The handguns shoot the same type of bullets as the WC4 handguns.

------------------
The time is near.
There are still quite a few days remaining.

I don't care for fame, power or money...
I just want to FIGHT!
-Sanosuke Sagara
 
I've got a good Boom-Boomish drink for everyone..

Go to a Brooks store - we have them in the US - and buy a bottle of their "Maxi" Diet Cola, it's a generic thing. Tastes like..well..Boom-Boom.
 
"In a world were aliens aren't uncomon...."
What world would that be? In WC1, Blair had not yet met an alien until he got to the Firekka system, and I don't see that he really met one even then.

"But is it so strange to assume that a WC game would mean a Confederation from WC games?"
Not really, confederation is a name that could be applied to hundreds of groups.

"Also, people may not think of even checking for ships that old."
So people check on old ships today by accident?

"Where's my Mace/Starburst/Coneburst missile in Prophecy Quarto?"
I'm not sure, but Quarto might have just launched them against Earthworm's home.
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Starburst? What good is a starbust bomb? Those things really suck. Mace, it's peactime, not wartime. Maybe shakedown cruise ships aren't always loaded up with tactical nuclear missiles.

"Where's the cloacking device in Prophecy?"
On Excaliburs. Don't tell me you forgot about that just to make a point.

"There are weapons and some different ways of making cloacking useless."
The cloak sensor from Armada? I thought that was just thrown in for competitions over net play.
 
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No Regret says:
There is confed tech in the Tri-system. The handguns shoot the same type of bullets as the WC4 handguns.
No Regret, those are just visual effects. They happened to like the way it looked. It's like lasers in space. So many SF universes have them these days, and none of them are related. Otherwise, I'd have to say that the Confederation has been using laser technology appropriated from the SW universe
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Earthworm says:
In a world were aliens aren't uncomon....
Well, I believe DH has answered that very well, but just to reiterate. Blair had never met an alien before Firekka. And during the course of the WC series, we have seen a grand total of... four alien races. The Mopoks, who were too primitive to count, the Firekkans, the Nephilem, and the Kilrathi. The others, such as the Mantu and the Double Helix have been referred to, but never seen. And even the ones that were seen were hardly ever talked to (taunts don't count). Therefore, aliens, and certainly friendly aliens, are not common.
And hey, cats are common in our world. But would you ever forget if you had come face to face with this huge lion? A lion is a type of cat, you know. Cat's are very common. So you really shouldn't be surprised when you see a lion walking down the street
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But is it so strange to assume that a WC game would mean a Confederation from WC games?
Heh. It's NOT a WC game. At most, it was a Priv game. Furthermore, note that the Warthog people didn't work on WC games. As for Erin Roberts... well, guys, I really hate to burst your bubble, but the producer doesn't have much to do with the actual plot. Erin might not even have known about the Confed references.
Oh, and did you somehow miss that bit where I pointed out that it would be very strange if people IN the Tri-System needed permission from THE Confed to settle a planet IN the Tri-System? Now then. If you do not have any REAL arguments, give up. For once, have the guts to admit you're wrong.

When the started it was to be a Privateer game, which was later changed to just The Darkening, and than changed back to Privateer.
Yes, I know. But for most of the production time, it was just The Darkening. And that's the time that counts.

Doesn't mean that ships will be traveling between Confed and Tri-Systems every day.
No, of course not. But why didn't we see even a SINGLE Confed freighter during P2? Greed is a mighty mover, and SURELY the Tri-System has some commodities that can sell very well in the Confederation? And of course vice versa... why don't we see Brilliance on the list of black market goods?

If you have a new comp, it could certainly happen. Also, people may not think of even checking for ships that old.
Heh. Earthworm, did you know that your Win98 (or perhaps 95?) computer actually contains all the different commands that existed in MS-DOS? And did you know that your BIOS still contains 47 different types of hard drives (most under the size of 100mb), even though ALL hard drives used these days are so-called Type 47 (in other words, user-defined)? That means that it contains 46 hard drive types which haven't been used for quite a while... And did you know that Win9x still sits on top of DOS, just like old Win 3.11 did? Well, your eyes must be glazing over now, from all these seemingly useless facts that I'm telling you, so I'd better get to the point. New computers contain all the information that old computers did, simply because people don't bother erasing it. As for your second argument... since when do people count when it comes to identifying a ship? I don't EVER recall having to select a name for the ship I'm seeing. The computer does all the id work, and it does not *think*. It simply checks against all entries in the database, and when it finds the ancient, obscure entry regarding the 27th century fighter called the Talon, it doesn't say "get outta here, that can't be right". It just displays the name "Talon", and if the pilot doesn't like it, tough.

Where's my Mace/Starburst/Coneburst missile in Prophecy Quarto?
Those weapons, like the Flashpak, are exceedingly dangerous, and used very rarely. And since they have a non-standard payload, they probably cost quite a bit more than standard missiles. For that reason, they are not standard issue. But the Fission cannon obviously is, since it's on sale
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Why is the Centurion the only fighter in Priv which you can own that can fly at 1000 KPS on full burners?
<Stunned at what he's seeing> Gee... I don't know... wait... could it be because the Centurion is not a military single-seater? Whoa... maybe that 50 ton cargo hold has something to do with it? But of course, those are just silly guesses
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. Surely, the fact that it's a civilian ship designed to carry cargo, and about two or three times as big as a military fighter would have absolutely NOTHING to do with its speed, right?
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Where's the cloacking device in Prophecy? There are weapons and some different ways of making cloacking useless.
It's right there, in your ICIS manual. As DH said, did you ignore that just for the sake of a weak argument? Disappointing, Earthworm. Very disappointing.

These things disappeared just as much as they did from the main series.
Well, as you see, they didn't disappear from the main series.

Except... there.... is.... no lack of Confed tech in P2 AFAWK.
Amazing things you tell us today, Earthworm. Would you care to name even one item in P2 that came from Confed? No? Didn't think so.
 
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Q Cat's are very common. So you really shouldn't be surprised when you see a lion walking down the street[/QUOTE]Amusing [img]https said:
//www.wcnews.com/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img]
 
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Death's Head said:
Not really, confederation is a name that could be applied to hundreds of groups.
In a WC game?

So people check on old ships today by accident?
Come on DH. They wouldn't be exactly checking all ships ever made would they? "Admiral Tolwy, there's and F-14 Tomcat on our scaners." For example, in FC, Babcook doesn't check for Confed ships when she's trying to identify a shutle.

Starburst? What good is a starbust bomb? Those things really suck.
Well, that's your opinion. I find them usefull sometimes. And they would work well for capships to shot down torps.

Mace, it's peactime, not wartime. Maybe shakedown cruise ships aren't always loaded up with tactical nuclear missiles.
Possible, and it could also be used to explain the lack of Fission guns, and the cloack.
On Excaliburs. Don't tell me you forgot about that just to make a point.
But I never see it....
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The ships in P2 might also have cloacking but we never see it used.
The cloak sensor from Armada? I thought that was just thrown in for competitions over net play.
Whatever the reason for making it was, a device like that exists. Plus various ways of seing throgh cloack described in the novels.
 
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Quarto said:
Well, I believe DH has answered that very well, but just to reiterate. Blair had never met an alien before Firekka. And during the course of the WC series, we have seen a grand total of... four alien races. The Mopoks, who were too primitive to count, the Firekkans, the Nephilem, and the Kilrathi. The others, such as the Mantu and the Double Helix have been referred to, but never seen. And even the ones that were seen were hardly ever talked to (taunts don't count). Therefore, aliens, and certainly friendly aliens, are not common.
Hm, I remember races like the Varni that migrated to Confed space, and were on ships and stations. I remember different kinds of aliens from Academy TV....

And hey, cats are common in our world. But would you ever forget if you had come face to face with this huge lion? A lion is a type of cat, you know. Cat's are very common. So you really shouldn't be surprised when you see a lion walking down the street
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I shouldn't be surprised if I see a little house cat. Lions, are uncommon. At least in countries without all that free space.

Heh. It's NOT a WC game. At most, it was a Priv game.
But... Priv... is WC.
Furthermore, note that the Warthog people didn't work on WC games. As for Erin Roberts... well, guys, I really hate to burst your bubble, but the producer doesn't have much to do with the actual plot.
ER, as well as various other OSI employes went to UK to work on P2.

Erin might not even have known about the Confed references.
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Oh, and did you somehow miss that bit where I pointed out that it would be very strange if people IN the Tri-System needed permission from THE Confed to settle a planet IN the Tri-System?
Hm, Confed also says that people from the Landreich can't settle on planets that are unpopulated, and not a part of Confed...

Now then. If you do not have any REAL arguments, give up.
I wouldn't call needing permision from Confed a real argument either. There could be milions of reasons for that.

For once, have the guts to admit you're wrong.
Hm, I remember admiting that on several ocasions....

Yes, I know. But for most of the production time, it was just The Darkening. And that's the time that counts.
Why? Because it fits with your points.

No, of course not. But why didn't we see even a SINGLE Confed freighter during P2?
Have you even thought that P2 might be too far to make shiping profitable? Or that it may not have anything that's not found in Confed.

Greed is a mighty mover, and SURELY the Tri-System has some commodities that can sell very well in the Confederation?
Possible, but there is nothing to point in either way.
why don't we see Brilliance on the list of black market goods?
Brilliance? The drug from Priv? Don't you think that people could come up with a better drug over 100 years?

Heh. Earthworm, did you know that your Win98 (or perhaps 95?) computer actually contains all the different commands that existed in MS-DOS?
Did you know that WinME is not even suposed to have DOS in it?
As for your second argument... since when do people count when it comes to identifying a ship? I don't EVER recall having to select a name for the ship I'm seeing.
That's because you're playing a game. There are milions of things you don't do.
The computer does all the id work, and it does not *think*. It simply checks against all entries in the database, and when it finds the ancient, obscure entry regarding the 27th century fighter called the Talon, it doesn't say "get outta here, that can't be right". It just displays the name "Talon", and if the pilot doesn't like it, tough.
But if you don't want your comp to check through all fighters ever made in the last 600 years, you would enter a date of 20-30 years back or so.

Those weapons, like the Flashpak, are exceedingly dangerous, and used very rarely.
Since when are the Cone/Starburst missiles exceedingly dangerous?
And since they have a non-standard payload, they probably cost quite a bit more than standard missiles.
A missile without tracking, and a powerfull warhead, that simply blows up and sends little bullets all around should be more expensive than a missile with a computer to identify a target, and with a warhead that has a power to destroy a ship with one hit?

I don't know... wait... could it be because the Centurion is not a military single-seater?
Neither are any of the ships you get to fly in P2.

Whoa... maybe that 50 ton cargo hold has something to do with it?
And do you think that ships in P2 don't have any space in there? We do tractor in several things during the game, so we need a place to put them in. It's not that big, but it is there.

Surely, the fact that it's a civilian ship designed to carry cargo, and about two or three times as big as a military fighter would have absolutely NOTHING to do with its speed, right?
And how do you know that it's two/three times bigger? Do you think it 60-90 meters long?

It's right there, in your ICIS manual. As DH said, did you ignore that just for the sake of a weak argument? Disappointing, Earthworm. Very disappointing.
No, it's disappointing that you assume something like that.

The cloacking device wasn't standard on those Excals. They were equpied with it because they went on a special recon mission. And we didn't see it in the game itself. We didn't see a cloack in P2 either. But because of the ICIS we know that it exists, how do you know it doesn't exist in P2?

Well, as you see, they didn't disappear from the main series.
Of course they did.

Amazing things you tell us today, Earthworm. Would you care to name even one item in P2 that came from Confed? No? Didn't think so.
He he, and how do you know that, let's say the Kraven isn't from Confed? Or the Warp Shield? Or the Brute missile? It is over 100 years after the last game in the main series, why would there be, for example, Tachyon guns, or Swarmer missiles in P2?



[This message has been edited by Earthworm (edited May 07, 2000).]
 
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"A missile without tracking, and a powerfull warhead, that simply blows up and sends little bullets all around should be more expensive than a missile with a computer to identify a target, and with a warhead that has a power to destroy a ship with one hit?"
I noticed you stayed away from the Mace. Do you know how much a nuclear bomb costs compared to a standard tracking missile? As for the 'burst bombs, I agree they shouldn't more expensive-unless the warhead is far more sophisticated in order to spray destructive bolts(bullets? I think the reference you use also says Maces and Conebursts are Starbursts that actually do damage, implying they use similar warheads)

"The cloacking device wasn't standard on those Excals. They were equpied with it because they went on a special recon mission. And we didn't see it in the game itself"
You asked where it went, not why it isn't used much. There's a lot we don't see in the game, like Midway's medium ions, but that doesn't mean that they don't "exist" because they were never added to the Midway file.

"In a WC game?"
Why not?

"Come on DH. They wouldn't be exactly checking all ships ever made would they? "Admiral Tolwy, there's and F-14 Tomcat on our scaners."
Come on Earthworm, jet engines don't work in space.
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They would however check for space-borne ships. If they stumbled upon Vayager 2, would Tolwyn says blast that thing, it's doesn't look Confed in origin? Computer databases would ID it as terran, tell you its specs, tell you who designed it, and probably if anyone had spit on it.

"Possible, and it could also be used to explain the lack of Fission guns, and the cloack."
Yes, they may be around, just not onboard every ship, especially a shakedown ship at that.

"But I never see it.... "
We never saw Sivar fire its PTC on Goddard, either, or a Ferret jump, the Gothri use its topedoes, or the eighth antimatter gun fire from the Concordia, or the Bonnie Heather launch fighters, or...

"Plus various ways of seing throgh cloack described in the novels."
Build a better sensor, you build a better cloak. This is a pattern that repeats itself over history.
 
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Hm, I remember races like the Varni that migrated to Confed space, and were on ships and stations. I remember different kinds of aliens from Academy TV....
My dear Earthworm, if Academy TV was a part of the WC universe, then we seem to have a major continuity problem on our hands
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. For one thing, when that happens, then the WC movie never existed
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- Blair keeps sending messages to his parents in Academy, while his parents are *dead* for quite a while in the movie. Furthermore, in SM2, Blair states he's never seen an alien. But he sees them in Academy... why, I'm inclined to believe that one of those sources would have to be wrong
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And as for the Varni... if they were any more common than the bird known as Dodo, I'm sure we'd hear of them in the WC games.

I shouldn't be surprised if I see a little house cat. Lions, are uncommon. At least in countries without all that free space.
But if the Kilrathi are just as common as aliens, then lions are just as common as cats. If, on the other hand, you say that lions are an exception to the rule, than it's fair enought to assume that when Blair sees a Kilrathi, he doesn't just shrug him off as "yet another alien".

But... Priv... is WC.
Of course. It's called WC: Priv. Curiously enough though, P2 is not called WC: Darkening...

Care to explain why that amuses thee?

Hm, Confed also says that people from the Landreich can't settle on planets that are unpopulated, and not a part of Confed...
Where?

I wouldn't call needing permision from Confed a real argument either. There could be milions of reasons for that.
Humour me. Name one
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Why? Because it fits with your points.
No. I don't do that. I would, however, think it fairly obvious why the middle part of the production would be important. The beginning is when they design the game, without going into too great a detail. The end is when they prepare the game for marketing, by writing the manuals, designing the box art, etc. Is it so strange to assume that those Confed references appeared during the middle part
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?

Have you even thought that P2 might be too far to make shiping profitable? Or that it may not have anything that's not found in Confed.
In that case, how did the Talon get there? Also, why does Confed care if the Tri-Systemites settle another worthless planet?

Brilliance? The drug from Priv? Don't you think that people could come up with a better drug over 100 years?
Why, yes, I think I see your point... as a matter of fact, alcohol went out of use within a hundred years, right?
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And so did nicotine, right?
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And everything seems to indicate that Marijuana, Opium, and others will do the same, right?
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Did you know that WinME is not even suposed to have DOS in it?
Did you know that they said that about Win95, and Win98?

That's because you're playing a game. There are milions of things you don't do.
Wait... you mean that in real life, they WOULDN'T use computers to make a pilot's life easier?

But if you don't want your comp to check through all fighters ever made in the last 600 years, you would enter a date of 20-30 years back or so.
Yeah, right. A good idea, with all those 50-year old carriers still floating around, right? But wait... didn't you say that the Rapier had been around for something like a 100 years before the Movie? Well, then I imagine it registers as an "unknown" on the Kilrathi screens. I guess they think that it's yet another alien race, coming to help the Terrans
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Since when are the Cone/Starburst missiles exceedingly dangerous?
Since they contain non-standard, very powerful payloads, which do damage to all ships in a given area. A mine also does that... but then, a mine doesn't have a nuclear payload, right?

A missile without tracking, and a powerfull warhead, that simply blows up and sends little bullets all around should be more expensive than a missile with a computer to identify a target, and with a warhead that has a power to destroy a ship with one hit?
You said it. Note that the Mace missile can and frequently does take out two Fralthras in one hit. It takes four torps to do so.

Neither are any of the ships you get to fly in P2.
Which doesn't change the fact that they don't have cargo bays, and are right about the same size as P2's military fighters.

And do you think that ships in P2 don't have any space in there? We do tractor in several things during the game, so we need a place to put them in. It's not that big, but it is there.
Who say's the cargoes go into the ship when tractored in? You're not usually required to take them very far. For all you know, they could just be strapped to the bottom of your vessel.

And how do you know that it's two/three times bigger? Do you think it 60-90 meters long?
I don't know how big they are exactly. But what I do know is that (tonnage-wise) you'd fit two Sabres, or four Ferrets in a Centurion's 50 ton cargo bay. In a Galaxy, even a Broadsword would fit. What does that say about their size?

No, it's disappointing that you assume something like that.
Why, Earthworm, what choice do you leave me?

The cloacking device wasn't standard on those Excals. They were equpied with it because they went on a special recon mission. And we didn't see it in the game itself. We didn't see a cloack in P2 either. But because of the ICIS we know that it exists, how do you know it doesn't exist in P2?
<sigh> Because nothing says that it does. If, "no proof" to you means that the statement is true, then I'd like to know why Blair didn't use his Jedi powers in any of the WCs. After all, he must have them, since there's no proof that he does, right?
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Of course they did.
No, they didn't.

He he, and how do you know that, let's say the Kraven isn't from Confed? Or the Warp Shield? Or the Brute missile? It is over 100 years after the last game in the main series, why would there be, for example, Tachyon guns, or Swarmer missiles in P2?
Sigh... Swarmers, for example, are a type of missile SYSTEM, not of a missile. Their payload would improve, and eventually you'd see a Brute Swarmer. But you don't, do you? As for all the other stuff, I think I'll let Angel answer for me...
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"But there is no proof! Next time, you will be seeing pink elephants with wings, n'est ce pas? [...] Get back to me when you've got a better storry to tell."
In other words, don't be silly. There is absolutely nothing in P2 that would indicate any relationship with Confed. Now, so far I've given plenty of good reasons (or at least reasons that everyone but you consider good enough) as to why that is the case. All you've provided in return is a number of weak arguments that seemingly defy all logic known to mankind.
 
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"can you guys actually belive this started by someone asking the Boom Boom recipe "
Without a doubt, Twister, without a doubt.
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Of course, 50 tonnes of water could be held in a cubical container about 3.68m on a side(asuming 1 ton/cubic meter). Water, I doubt is more dense than durasteel, or tungsten, or iron, why fertilite probably has a higher density, and that can probably be compacted to some degree.
 
Shhh, Death's Head. He wouldn't have thought of it if you didn't say anything
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