wing 1 and 2 options

[Tigerhawk]

Good question. Yes, that was Niven adding his space cats to Star Trek.

He adapted one of his 1960s Known Space stories, "The Soft Weapon" into a Star Trek animated episode called "The Slaver Weapon". You can find The Soft Weapon in a collection of Known Space short stories called "Neutron Star".

"Canonical" Star Trek has avoided referencing the Kzinti again, but they remain a favorite of various elements of the fandom. Kzinti are also one of the major factions of the "Starfleet Battles" series of games, which has evolved separately over the years from Star Trek's ordinary continuity. As was the style at the time, Alan Dean Foster adapted all the TAS episodes into novels called 'Star Trek Log {number}'... so, in Star Trek Log Ten you can read Foster's prose adaptation of Niven's script adaptation of Niven's original short story!

Niven also wrote some of the daily 'Star Trek' comic strips in the 1970s, and these may also have included Kzinti at some point (I don't honestly remember).

Also -- TAS will finally be out on DVD next week, the last Star Trek show that needed a release... so if you want to see cartoon Kzinti again, now is your chance!

The actual "Man Kzin" wars books are primarily spinoff stories written by other authors, and they're far more recent than most of Known Space -- the Man-Kzin series started some fifteen years ago, around the same time the original Wing Commander came out. The Kzinti themselves were created (I *think*) in 'The Warriors', a 1966 short story. They've since been background players throughout Known Space, most famously in the Ringworld books.

"The Slaver Weapon"...THAT was the other one. The only one I could remember the name of was "The Jihad", but I knew there were two of them. Haven't seen any TAS episodes since my junior high days on Nick.

Wonder if he did the Caitians as well, or just allowed the likeness to come about. Remember Lt M'Ress from TAS, and that Caitian dancer that attacked Kirk in ST V?

Very interesting trivia! Thanks!

 

[Delance]

Some pics from the cartoon Kzinti here:

http://www.memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Kzinti

This captain kinda looks like Dakhath the Dralthi pilot.

They were also used on the Starfleet Command series, but were made more canine and renamed Mirak.

 

[starlord]

anyway, I think that the kilrathi was truly a great alien species to study. Their psyche and warrior code also is enthrailing to unravel (and is not unlike past asian warrior code). As much as it is interesting to have a complete unknown and understood enemy race attacking you (i e: nephilim) since fear can mount vary fast, to have also a race like the kilrathi prouves to be fun (the kilrathi were actually better incorporated in history than the nephilim).

Something else, I have the dos versions of WC3 and WC4 but I got problems regarding soundcard recognition (I think my soundcard is too recent). What can I do?
Also, does the kilrathi saga figures speech for WC1? because if it's the case, mine doesn't work.

 

[Edfilho]

Nope, there was never a speech pack for WC1, not even the KS version.

 

[Ripperian]

But what you "think" is wrong, and is offensive to certain groups of people.

Ok, I don't want to be a troublemaker. But.... no one can be offensed by my opinion. It's just an inoffensive point of view. And there is no wrong or right in this case, you can choose what to do but nobody can tell you "You can't do this".

If you only want to see the story of a videogame, fine. I would never do that, because if I am not interested in the game I am not interested in the story. But I can understand someone who would do it.

Killing capital ships becomes much harder in Wing Commander II, where they can only be damaged with a special type of missile (the torpedo) that takes twenty seconds of line-of-sight lock to fire. At the same time, that game improves the effectiveness of their flak by quite a bit.

I don't play it yet, but it seems that they complicated the things a little. But what I was waiting for was that they gain power of defense. Because in this case a single fighter still can take down a Capital ship... and that does not have any sense. At least doesn't have to be easier. I'm talking about a 1 on 1 fight between a fighter and a Capital Ship/Base/whatever. It should be extremly harder...


A Capital ship most be powerfull. Is this thought also "Wrong"?


As for the spatial cats, it seems to me, wihtout any intention of offense anybody, that with the years they were constructing a civilization and completed race. But the base idea, the spatial cats, It's for kids. It does matter wherefrom it went out, I'm talking about the idea only.

 

[starlord]

it's OK! cool down flyboy, I clearly see what you mean, But it's true that rookies may have problems in caching up with those games: And we wouldn't like to deprive them of the SUPERB AND EPIC storyline, now would we? (there are so many video games today without any/with a mediocre plot.

Otherwise, how about the super WC for the 3do? didn't this one feature a speech pack? (if I remember well: this one is WC1 + SM1 and 2).

Also, since we have the privateer 3 script, will we be one day be lucky enough to see a project following the story? (I HATE unfinished stories).

Also, should you wish to open a thread for other space sim games, I could talk about a few. For instance: the epic and inferno (WHAOW) from ocean.

 

[Bandit LOAF]

Ok, I don't want to be a troublemaker. But.... no one can be offensed by my opinion. It's just an inoffensive point of view. And there is no wrong or right in this case, you can choose what to do but nobody can tell you "You can't do this".

No, opinions can be very, very wrong -- and yours is. It's also personally offensive to me, as someone who would like to be able to play the games but who sometimes can not.

I don't play it yet, but it seems that they complicated the things a little. But what I was waiting for was that they gain power of defense. Because in this case a single fighter still can take down a Capital ship... and that does not have any sense. At least doesn't have to be easier. I'm talking about a 1 on 1 fight between a fighter and a Capital Ship/Base/whatever. It should be extremly harder...

I just told you, it is harder in later games. Wing Commander II's capital ships are defended with deadly flak and shields which can't be damaged by guns or normal missiles.

As for whether or not it's "possible" for a fighter to destroy a capital ship, refer again to our overarching allegory -- the Pacific War was very much defined by battles like Midway where tiny fighter-bombers were used to destroy powerful capital ships.

As for the spatial cats, it seems to me, wihtout any intention of offense anybody, that with the years they were constructing a civilization and completed race. But the base idea, the spatial cats, It's for kids. It does matter wherefrom it went out, I'm talking about the idea only.

Where the idea comes from matters very much -- since, as I already pointed out, it comes from *hard* science fiction. The idea isn't a bad one, in terms of "realism" (as if such a thing mattered) and in terms of simple artistic concept. Speaking to the former, we generally acknowledge the concept of evolution for our own species -- it's a simple leap to assume that it would happen in a similar manner to a different family of animals on another planet. In terms of storytelling, though, it's especially clever (whether used by Niven or by Wing Commander)... because the idea of a feline predator is a racial memory of sorts in humans. Cats hunting men in space strikes a familiar note for a species that came to be through such things in the past.

Otherwise, how about the super WC for the 3do? didn't this one feature a speech pack? (if I remember well: this one is WC1 + SM1 and 2).

Yes, Super Wing Commander (3DO and Mac) has full speech. The SegaCD port of Wing Commander does, as well (and that one has the same graphics as the PC game). The FM Towns version of the game has in-flight speech (in Japanese).

 

[ChrisReid]

Ok, I don't want to be a troublemaker. But.... no one can be offensed by my opinion

If you don't want to be a trouble maker, don't be a trouble maker.

And there is no wrong or right in this case

Here's the part where your opinion is wrong:

This is not a movie, you must play it to see the story...

And here's the part where you're being rude and condescending:

for Watchers-only there are the TV Series like Battlestar Galactic

And here's the part where you backpedal and contradict yourself:

you can choose what to do but nobody can tell you "You can't do this".

Do you not understand how you just told people they can't enjoy the game without playing through it on full difficulty exactly in the manner you dictate?

whitout offese.

That's really tacky. Adding a statement like this to such a post just makes it more offensive.

 

[Ripperian]

No, opinions can be very, very wrong -- and yours is. It's also personally offensive to me, as someone who would like to be able to play the games but who sometimes can not.

I'm not saying anything about opinions.
If my opinion was offensive, I apologize.
I just want to say that for me a game is for play it.

I just told you, it is harder in later games. Wing Commander II's capital ships are defended with deadly flak and shields which can't be damaged by guns or normal missiles.

Ok. I don't understand you before.
I will try it soon.

Where the idea comes from matters very much -- since, as I already pointed out, it comes from *hard* science fiction. The idea isn't a bad one, in terms of "realism" (as if such a thing mattered) and in terms of simple artistic concept. Speaking to the former, we generally acknowledge the concept of evolution for our own species -- it's a simple leap to assume that it would happen in a similar manner to a different family of animals on another planet. In terms of storytelling, though, it's especially clever (whether used by Niven or by Wing Commander)... because the idea of a feline predator is a racial memory of sorts in humans. Cats hunting men in space strikes a familiar note for a species that came to be through such things in the past.

The thing is that a terrestrial family of animals on another planet is a little ridiculous and infantile.

And I say this although I like the games.

And Chris.... I don't see any contradiction.

And I'm sorry if I was rude. I wanted to say that you're missing the game!
And that is something I would never do. If I am interested in the game of course.

 

[Delance]

The thing is that a terrestrial family of animals on another planet is a little ridiculous and infantile.

It most certainly is not. I don’t think space cats are any less ridiculous than some exotic silicon-based 12 legged hive-minded lava-eating worm. There’s no reason to think that a space faring feline race is more “infantile” than some random sci-fi alien. The reason is that any fictional alien ace will end up based on something from human culture anyway, and the idea behind the Kilrathi are no different in this regard.

 

[Ripperian]

It most certainly is not. I don’t think space cats are any less ridiculous than some exotic silicon-based 12 legged hive-minded lava-eating worm. There’s no reason to think that a space faring feline race is more “infantile” than some random sci-fi alien.

Not some random. Because a random sci-fi alien could bring a race even worst.
But why not pick up one of the best?
The "Alien" from the Movie. That's a good alien. If I put that Alien to a side of a Kilrathi I will pick the Alien always. Because a Kilrathi is more infantile.

The reason is that any fictional alien ace will end up based on something from human culture anyway, and the idea behind the Kilrathi are no different in this regard.

I know is hard to create an alien without something of the human culture. But there are better and worse attempts.

 

[Bandit LOAF]

Because a Kilrathi is more infantile.

Whoever taught you this word did you an incredible disservice.

 

[Dyret]

It's kinda big for one of his overall english skill level, anyway.

 

[Ripperian]

immature perhaps it is more suitable

 

[Bandit LOAF]

No, not really.

Everyone has pointed out exactly why you're wrong about this, whichever word you've used... and all you've done is repeat yourself with increasingly insulting language. That's not how you make a point.

 

[Enoch]

immature perhaps it is more suitable

How so? Feline aliens in sci-fi are quite common due to their perceived mysterious behavior by humans, their fast reactions, enhanced senses and in most cases a fierce nature. All this added up makes for a great choice for an alien to be pitted against humanity.

 

[Delance]

The "Alien" from the Movie. That's a good alien.

It's a parasite / bogeyman in the same way the Kilrathi are "space cats".

 

[Ripperian]

How so? Feline aliens in sci-fi are quite common due to their perceived mysterious behavior by humans, their fast reactions, enhanced senses and in most cases a fierce nature. All this added up makes for a great choice for an alien to be pitted against humanity.

I do not question the race attributes. Forget it.

It's a parasite / bogeyman in the same way the Kilrathi are "space cats".

The base idea of the races they have no comparison.

 

[Ripperian]

Everyone has pointed out exactly why you're wrong about this, whichever word you've used... and all you've done is repeat yourself with increasingly insulting language. That's not how you make a point.

I do not insult anybody.
You take all like an insult.
I did make my point already

"the Kilrathi race base idea is not elaborated enough, because they are terrestrial animals with Human attributes"

I like the game but this is a slack point, to me. (this is not an insult)

 

[AD]

I do not insult anybody.
You take all like an insult.
I did make my point already

"the Kilrathi race base idea is not elaborated enough, because they are terrestrial animals with Human attributes"

I like the game but this is a slack point, to me. (this is not an insult)

They *aren't* cats though. They are cat-like, but they did not descend from earth felines. How is this different from any other alien in any other sci-fi universe?