Who is most evil?

EEEEEVHAL

  • Kitties

    Votes: 5 9.4%

  • Black Lance

    Votes: 28 52.8%

  • Retros

    Votes: 7 13.2%

  • Pirates

    Votes: 3 5.7%

  • Bugs

    Votes: 10 18.9%
  • Total voters
    53
Originally posted by Col.Dom
When you think about it, both sides were fighting for survival. The Black Lance sought survival through superiority and purity, where Blair and the UBW sought it through a "live and let live," policy and harmony amongst men.
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No. The Black Lance sought survival by destroying everything else. It's as simple as that.

On the topic of harmony amongst men, the Black Lance sought that too. Through common foes and constant cameraderie through struggle, there could have been a truly magnificant harmony. Tolwyn's plan would have actually created more harmony than "live and let live."
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Harmony? Well, if harmony is so desirable, then why don't we just kill everyone? Surely, if everyone's dead, that'll be the best harmony of all. Peace, quiet, no disagreements.
...The point being, there are things more important than harmony.

... but what truly defines an evil person? As humans, we all have the ability to justify our means with the ends and we all have our different beliefs and ideals. So, one man's evil may be another's moral!
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Oh, don't give us that relativist bullshit. There are certain things which are not relative. You will not find a single culture in the world that would consider slaughtering 90% of the population to be moral, no matter what 'purpose' is used to excuse it.

BUGS are evil.
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Unsurprisingly, you don't even attempt to prove this - because you can't. We know nothing about them... except that they take as many live prisoners as possible - which, in wartime, is surely an evil thing to do :p.
 
Originally posted by Col.Dom
When you think about it, both sides were fighting for survival. The Black Lance sought survival through superiority and purity, where Blair and the UBW sought it through a "live and let live," policy and harmony amongst men.

On the topic of harmony amongst men, the Black Lance sought that too. Through common foes and constant cameraderie through struggle, there could have been a truly magnificant harmony. Tolwyn's plan would have actually created more harmony than "live and let live."
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"Live and let live".
As evidenced by the first Black Lance victims you see in the game (a medical transport, iirc).
Yeah...
This could be debated forever, though. It all depends on one's beliefs, really. I personally agree with Tolwyn and the Black Lance on some points, so they don't seem so bad.
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The problem with an attitude like that is that most truly evil individuals DO have some good cause that they are working for. Unfortunately, somewhere along the line, things get skewed, and the end starts to justify the means.

One question, though... how can a pirate be considered "evil?" They may be criminals and not right with laws and policies but I wouldn't consider them evil....
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Not as evil as a Hitler or (dare I say it) a Tolwyn, but they're still evil. Its just the degree that isn't in evidence. Robbing others, whether or not you kill them after taking what is theirs, is evil. No two ways about it.

BUGS are evil :D
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Probably.
Unfortunately, we know so little about them that its hard to say for certain. The fact that they appear to be vivisecting the 'unaligned' is a point against them. The fact that they attempt to blow up pretty much any and all vessels that they come across is another point. The 'bioweapons' in SOP, however, may be completely unintentional, just as was the use of germ warfare in War of the Worlds.
 
Re: BUGS

Originally posted by Col.Dom
Pirates aren't too bad (although can be responsible for very despicable acts)...
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I don't see why pirates overtly attack Confed and other law enforcers in WC - it just doesn't make sense since pirates are generally out to make a profit by stealing, etc. In attacking Confeds, they cut their life expectancy from years to days - it's just not in their interests. Of course, there are a few twisted individuals...

BTW, I haven't played P2, nor have I thoroughly read the majority of this thread (no time :().
 
I have to go for the Black Lance too, if only because:

A) Pirates don't necessarily HAVE to kill you, if you give over all your stuff.

B) The Kats were just trying to expand their empire and await the fight with the Mantu and the Star Gods.

C) We don't know enough about the Bugs, after all they may be something like the Kilrathi on this one.

D) Retros might be religious fanatics, so they're close to the Black Lance on this one. (Evil too!)

E) But the BL have to take this one, as they were trying to enforce their ideals on others (even if it meant killing them to do so), which I cannot stand. While the Retros did the same thing, the Black Lance had better training/equipment so they were able to cause more damage.

The others might be deemed as malicous, but I wouldn't call them evil. (Since your not a Bug or Kat, you really don't have the right to judge their society), while pirates don't necessarily HAVE to kill-they just do a lot. And since my comparison with the BL and Retros, that's why I'm going with the "superior humans."
 
Re: Re: BUGS

Originally posted by Wedge009
I don't see why pirates overtly attack Confed and other law enforcers in WC - it just doesn't make sense since pirates are generally out to make a profit by stealing, etc. In attacking Confeds, they cut their life expectancy from years to days - it's just not in their interests. Of course, there are a few twisted individuals...

BTW, I haven't played P2, nor have I thoroughly read the majority of this thread (no time :().
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Pirates in Privateer don't outright attack Confed -- but given the choice between defending themselves and being killed quickly, they chose the former.

The pirates in WC4 were Black Lance sponsored...
 
I'd have to say that any extreme fascist group like the Nazis or BL are hardcore evil.
 
I would definitely have to vote Black Lance as well, for all the reasons that others have pointed out. What really amuses me about the attempts to defend them though, is the claim that they're somehow "superior", given how throughly they got their "genetically perfect" backsides reamed by an ountgunned and outnumbered bunch of Border Worlders who were flying Rapiers and Ferrets and who for the most part had minimal flight training. Hardly a resounding success for those who would be humanity's self appointed guardians. Oh, and anyone who seriously believes that genetic purity bullshit should try taking biology at something a little more advanced than the grade school level.


Best, Raptor
 
As for the 'genetic purity' bullshit, any sort of genetic 'purity' is usually arrived at through ideology. Ideology is rarely associated with reality in any way, especially that kind. You could try to come up with the genetically 'pure' and end up with a dead race, because nobody measures up to the standards.
 
That whole genetic purity nonsense is really funny, the only time they ever win is when they fight civilians.And I think even grade school biology would point out the flaws in such a concept.The Black Lance is Evil just like the SS and Gestapo.
 
The idea of 'genetic purity' being a controversy seems to be a non-issue in the WC universe, and so it should be one to us... (it is, further, something we can't logically discuss...).

The problem with claiming that the project was noble because they were trying to better mankind is that the Kilrathi, the pirates, the retros and so on were *all* trying to better their own groups. Noble goals doesn't mean noble actions.
 
I find it very hard to appy thw word 'evil' to something or somebody but IMO the BL or the Retros are the ones where I could imagine that 'evil' is a fitting description.
 
Originally posted by Wulf
I'd have to say that any extreme fascist group like the Nazis or BL are hardcore evil.
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That really doesn't make any sense.

I doubt you could prove that the Black Lance was a fascist organization, nor could you prove that all fascists are, by definition, evil. Assholes, yes, evil... that's a harder sell.
 
The thing about the BWers flying older ships did give them a considerable disadvantage, but since they had more "life fire" training (what with HAVING to fight all the time) I can see how their skills would hone relatively fast.

This doesn't mean they should have been able to beat these "best of the best", but hey, the underdog can almost ALWAYS take out the better group. After all, when your pinned against a corner, you fight more viciously than anyone can imagine.
 
You can't prove that the Black Lance are a facist organization because they're *not* a facist organization. In any sense of the term.

This doesn't mean they should have been able to beat these "best of the best", but hey, the underdog can almost ALWAYS take out the better group. After all, when your pinned against a corner, you fight more viciously than anyone can imagine.
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I believe the current war in Afghanistan proves this wrong... <G>
 
I think the question here is; How dou you define what is evil?
Philosophers have been looking for the answer to that question forever. How can we hope to find it?

I believe a person (or a group as such) is defined by his/her actions, not by his/her beliefs or his motivations. We may understand someone who kills somebody in the heat of passion, but that does not make it right. Therefore I don't think there is an answer. The Kilrathi rank up most kills, but I think that what the bugs did was more horrific. At least the cats had the decency to kill you when they were done with you. The Bugs lett you live to do their experiments on you. A fate worse than death indeed...
 
Your not one of those people that are always on the bad guys side are you? If there is anything that is relating to two sides, good and evil, I'm on ways on the good guys side. What side are you guys normally on?
 
I am most of the time on the side of the faction that is considered evil. Why? Not because I am particulary bloodthirsty or identify myself with them. No, it's because I really hate those black-and-white pictures given often in movies/games. The side you (the hero) is on, is completely noble, always heroic and brave; fighting for peace, liberty, independence since you were attacked by those evil, man-slaughtering, primitive, stupid and barbaric guys [either another race or a human faction which bears strong similarities with either the CCCP or the Nazis]. I always felt it was 'unfair' how the bad guys wre treated in many movies/games. Thus I try to fight for them.
But in Star Wars, I always fight for the Empire because it's so much cooler. :cool:
 
I usualy personaly side with the "good" guys but at the same time I am also a sort of "devils advocate". I, even when I dont personally agree, like to come up with explanations or reasons that favor the parties that are in unfavorable light. Kind of stick up for them even if they don't deserve it.

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