Originally posted by pendell
They were not heroes. They failed in their mission. and if memory serves there are few greater shames either in Japanese culture or in any other.
You sound like me when I heard the mass media calling the people on the planes of September 11th "heros". Just because you die doesn't make you a hero, but the fact that they died serving their cause and their orders, makes them heros. I'd assume you'd be crying in your foxhole?
However, remember that a soldier isn't supposed to die simply for the sake of dying
Bullshit armchair warrior talk. Hate to bring this to light, but on the battlefield, men are a resource and not people. If it serves the cause, you have to be willing to sacrafice everyone to get it.
they are supposed to make the sacrifice in order to achieve their objectives.
When applicable or possible.
In this case the Ichiki regiment utterly failed to accomplish any of its objectives and was annihilated.
I'll give you that much.
The suicide of its officers was considered atonement for a ghastly failure. Guadalcanal was held by the Americans and was later used as a staging ground for later conquests which, eventually, ended the war.
Also true. But how many American soldiers did they take with them?
Had the Japanese used a little bit more brains and a little less courage (committed more troops with better support) they could have captured Guadalcanal and at worst delayed the American timetable by a year.
Whoa. You just made a REAL stupid error. You mean to tell me because people are brave they must be stupid? Do not confuse the bullshit American ideal of "absolutes" in with bravery and military tactics. And, last I checked, delaying a year in a war is pretty fucking good. LOTS of things can happen in that amount of time, since there is no "Absolute" answer.
At best, they could have stalemated the Americans and forced a favorable end to the war.
I'd like to see your degree in History if you don't mind. :rollseyes:
If that's your idea of tactics and leading men, I won't hold my breath waiting for your eventual conquest of the universe -- your own men will frag you first.
And now you're confusing me with my avatar. Christ.
I wouldn't want to be in charge since I tend to second-guess myself and because I think I'd fold rather quickly under the pressure.
As I have pointed out, blind headlong charges became obsolete in 1914.
Yeah, good thing they're still in the books of every military academy in the world.
If you fight wars using those tactics, no matter how brave your people are, you will accomplish nothing and your people will die in great numbers. For examples see Iran-Iraq 1980-1988, Korea 1953, WWII Pacific Theatre, WWI.
Thats right ladies and gentlemen! You too, if you're cowardly enough, can skip the draft and head for Canada, fore-going your duty as a civilian to defend your nation and actually make a difference! But wait! You could also... burn your draft card and sit on your ass like a lazy, WASP American and piss your life away watching sitcoms! Oh the joy of it all!
Without courage, a military, no matter the size, is worthless.
Have you ever seen a MOH citation? I have.
Good for you.
Rodger Young was a hero because he gave his life that others would live. It was a very specific set of circumstances -
1. His sacrifice saved the lives of his buddies.
2. His sacrifice helped achieve a military objective.
3. There were no other less costly ways available.
How do these not apply to what you said about all those Japanese soldiers who died? They all died for the exact damned principals. You're talking in hindsight, which makes it easy to critisize and judge.
We give medals for courage and for valor -- we do not give medals for stupidity.
No, we have generals who award themselves medals and blow their thoughts and memories out when the press finds out.
Stupidity sees the problem, but solves it in the most expensive and painful way possible when there are less costly alternatives available.
Again, thats bullshit. "There is no such thing as foolproof since fools are so ingenius".
People have tried to do it that way repeatedly in the twentieth century and failed almost every time.
The sentence started as an absolute and faultered into a bad variable. Please keep a more secure footing on what the hell you're trying to say.
Courage combined with common sense and experience goes a lot further than courage alone.
I never said any differently. I'm just stating that a lot of what you're saying is complete Democratic rehash touchy-feely bullshit that dentists and beaurcrats and pussy-boy software designers give into. Live by the sword, die by it. Don't question instinct and certainly don't give an inch the moment someone is hostile. Plow through without thought, with minimal effort and with zealous delight in the pain you receive.
