WC2/WC3 Transition

My take is that there is a shortage of Rapiers and Sabres in the fleet. Either it is typical for a light carrier like the Victory to carry second-rate fighters, or a fighter construction base got smashed prior to WC3.

Both the Hellcat and Thunderbolt are decidedly inferior to the Rapier and Sabre respectively so I think that is the only real explanation. The Hellcat is slower and carries Neutrons instead of Particle cannons.

Maybe they were built primarily on Earth's moon and when it got smashed in the Battle of Earth, that created a shortage.

The Longbow and the Arrow make sense. The Longbow is the natural progression from the Crossbow/Broadsword, and the Arrow fills the gap at light fighter with the weak Epees and Ferrets.
 
The Thunderbolt is probably the best regular heavy-fighter in any wc game... How can it be inferior to the Sabre???
 
Well, the Sabre has the definate edge over the T-Bolt in maneuverability, but I'd take the T-Bolt any day of the week. Sabre's shields are way too paper thin for me.
 
They're just paper-thin enough for me!

But seriously, you cannot compare wc2 fighters with wc3 fighters without taking into account the advancements in technology, particularly shielding and armor, from one period to the other.
 
Sabre's faster and more maneuverable, and carries a comparable weapon loadout. The shields are weaker than the Tbolt I would think. I never liked the Tbolt but that is just my opinion. I always dreaded coming up against Vaktoths when I was in a Tbolt. That was the only fighter matchup I really hated.
 
Are you kidding? A Vaktoth is cannon fodder when it's matched up against a T-bolt, unless someone really good is piloting the Vaktoth, and someone bad-to-mediocre is flying the Thud. Vaktoths crumble before those six guns (especially the plasmas).
 
Well its been a while since I played WC3, but as I remember it, I hated this matchup because the Tbolt couldn't outmaneuver or outrun a Vaktoth so if he had his back to you, you just kept getting a face-full of turret fire. AND you couldn't trade blows with him face to face either, because he was just as well armed/armored as you and you had to face probably 3-4 of them total. Honestly if you thought it was easy I don't think we were playing at the same difficulty level. I've played a lot of games and this is one of those things I just remember as being a major source of frustration.

If you were in a quicker ship, like an Arrow, Excalibur or (hypothetically) a Sabre, Vaktoths were no deal because you could just pound them from 4 or 8 o'clock where the turret couldn't hit you. In a Tbolt it's harder to do that.
 
overmortal said:
Are you kidding? A Vaktoth is cannon fodder when it's matched up against a T-bolt, unless someone really good is piloting the Vaktoth, and someone bad-to-mediocre is flying the Thud. Vaktoths crumble before those six guns (especially the plasmas).
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I seem to recall an excellent example of this in the WC3 novelization...and I loved the T-bolt's full guns. As long as you're accurate, just about any other class of fighter doesn't stand a chance.
 
I could kill anything no sweat in a T-Bolt, I tellyou what, I hate going against Vaktoths in an Arrow or a Hellcat. One on one its OK but any worse odds than that, gove me the T-Bolt.
 
can take ever fighter with arrow, but big ships.... not a chance.
Can take on much with the hellcat to, but not so much,,, but better then a Thud, but if its one ship i hate its longbow, hate it.. hate it... hate it...
 
same with the excal...only ships I really used missiles on when I was in the excal and tbolt were vaktoths, pakhtans and sorthaks, otherwise guns were more than sufficient. If you are really good with the excal guns and make sure every bolt in a salvo hits the target you can take down darkets with one salvo...god I loved doing that...
 
yeah yeah n00b here with n00b question, but its on topic,

I always wondered how long after the arrival of the WCIII ships did the craft from II persist in ISS and confed militia service? Im figuring the Rapier II and maybe some Sabre's would probably be still hanging around till perahps the time of propecy (and probably get replaced with Hellcats and T-bolts)

Would the borderworlds have bought confed surplus for use in their system security/paramilitary security type units?
 
Welcome Tyvar. That's along the lines of my original question, and certainly Confed would have sold a lot of their older fighters to the Border Worlds and other organizations after the Kilrathi War. Max Kruger bought a bunch of ships for the Landreich in Fleet Action, for example. Since Prophecy takes place over 10 years after the War, it's pretty safe to assume most of the older fighters, including the ones that were new in WC3 and 4 were either sold off or scrapped in favor of Confed's newer developments. I'm sure there were probably a few Hellcats and Thunderbolts (certainly some Excaliburs) in 2681, as there were probably Rapiers, Ferrets and Sabres around at the time of WC3+4, but we in our narrow view of the WC universe don't get see them.
 
Well in prophecy we get the idea that the Midway is new and her fightergroup is new, the Vampires and other craft are all brand new top of the line may not be widely deployed yet (well except for maybe the tigershark) We know that there are still lots of excalls and T-bolts in standard navy service. And I bet the ever ubiquitious hellcat probably is in the process of becoming the system security forces new standard ride. Although I bet they are getting ahold of a healthy amount of excalls and T-bolts too.

I bet the borderworlds had some of everthing floating around,they dont throw anything away, probably because they never know when they are going to get wrapped up into some kind of genoicidal shooting scrape with somebody.
 
Tyvar said:
I bet the borderworlds had some of everthing floating around,they dont throw anything away, probably because they never know when they are going to get wrapped up into some kind of genoicidal shooting scrape with somebody.
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WC: Unknown Enemy is a terrific take on the "medley" of ships in the service of the Border Worlds in the post-Kilrathi War era. Flying a Scimitar again was a real treat, and the Bengal Class Carrier never looked so good.

I do believe that the Excal was in Prophecy or SO (I think the latter but can't exactly remember), so it was definitely in service during the war with the Nephilum.
 
There's some internal documents that say that the Excalibur was used as a Wild Weasel platform during the WCP times. I don't think it has been converted to digital format though.
 
In regards to older ships in Confed service, False Colors contains an offhand reference to one of the WC2 ships still being used by reserve squadrons. Can't remember for sure, but I think it was Broadswords, or maybe Sabres.
 
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