WC2- How Do You Defeat The Turreted Fighters?

RyanFialcowitz

Swabbie
Banned
I just finished playing the first game and both it's expansions and while the latter were quite hard at points I got through it. But this game seems completely cheap. I speak, of course, of the many turreted fighters that the game loves to throw at you. If I approach from the front or back I get ripped to shreds by the ship I'm after and his/her MANY friends that ALL seem to be tailing me. If I attempt to attack from above or below the ship instantly changes direction and suddenly I'm being blasted out of the sky. Speaking of which the enemy ships seem to be moving and changing directions MUCH more then the first game to the point which it's near impossible to hit them- is this a DOSBox cycles issue? My CPU is three gigahertz. . .

-Ryan P. Fialcowitz
 
If I approach from the front or back I get ripped to shreds by the ship I'm after and his/her MANY friends that ALL seem to be tailing me. If I attempt to attack from above or below the ship instantly changes direction and suddenly I'm being blasted out of the sky. Speaking of which the enemy ships seem to be moving and changing directions MUCH more then the first game to the point which it's near impossible to hit them- is this a DOSBox cycles issue? My CPU is three gigahertz. . .

-Ryan P. Fialcowitz

Try attacking from the front and sides. If you are going to attack from the rear be prepared to AB out of the way of incoming fire.

The people tailing you are unfortunately probably your wingmen. They have a bad habit of going for the same target and plastering your tail instead of the enemy's.

Do you have DOSBox set to auto? You may want to play around with the cycles.
 
Also, the enemy AI in WC1 was downright pathetic, which makes you sloppy at times- WC2 had a much improved AI, meaning you had to pick up your game a bit. If the enemy fighter in question is flying straight, you can pop off a few shots and adjust your course, tailing it all the way to hell. If they don't fly straight but adjust their course a bit, your problem is about to take care of itself- blast it in the sides, quickly!

Also, the whole wingman issue can be helped by either ordering them back to base, or ordering them to attack another target. This is a big issue, especially for Hobbes or Maniac- they're very focused on their task. Unfortunately, this isn't WC1 where you could blast them out of the skies if they return to refuse to base- they WILL fire back and you WILL NOT be allowed to land...
 
1.) How many cycles should I have for a 3ghz CPU? Lowering it from 7,000 to 5,000 seems to make the game a bit more playable- but I'm not sure if it's totally optimal.

2.) It feels really cheap to me that computer controlled ships can effortlessly work all turrets and weapons at the same time- while the player has to multitask. . . I mean would it kill the higher ups to put some men in those turrets? I mean it doesn't make sense to make a vessel where ONE person has to control three of more turrets. . .

3.) Is the Broadsword not supposed to have afterburners in the first mission where you fly it- because I couldn't get the afterburners to work at all, though they work on all other ships.
 
The Broadsword and Crossbow if you get into Special Ops don't have afterburning capabilities. So being a good turret shooter is quite essential when you fly in them. As far as DOSBox cycles, the default is set to 3000 so try that or a lower value and see how it performs.

P.S. - I'm sure you'll be swearing when you reach Kur and his Grikath buddies.
 
1.) How many cycles should I have for a 3ghz CPU? Lowering it from 7,000 to 5,000 seems to make the game a bit more playable- but I'm not sure if it's totally optimal.

2.) It feels really cheap to me that computer controlled ships can effortlessly work all turrets and weapons at the same time- while the player has to multitask. . . I mean would it kill the higher ups to put some men in those turrets? I mean it doesn't make sense to make a vessel where ONE person has to control three of more turrets. . .

1/ It depends on your PC but 5000 sounds reasonable.

2/ Your turrets do fire - you can see the turrets in the left VDU flash red every now and then.
 
Be creative, and simply keep an eye on your shields and armor states, disengage and allow the shields to recharge, dying two or three times should give you the idea to come up with a strategy, also never, ever try to tail a turreted fighter in a broadsword, it can outrun and outmanouver you.

My course of action would be to bring in him close and start exchanging fire, he'll loose the speed advantage in outmanouvering you, and and if he decided to fly out you'll have a clear shot.

Unfortunately, this isn't WC1 where you could blast them out of the skies if they return to refuse to base- they WILL fire back and you WILL NOT be allowed to land...

In WC1 Fire with your guns three or four times, at your wingman, and he/she will start shooting back.
 
In WC1 Fire with your guns three or four times, at your wingman, and he/she will start shooting back.

You're probably the only person I know who has such bad luck with his wingman that this can happen to him in WC1. In everyone else's they just squawk until they explode, and the Colonel goes along with the idea that kats got them.
 
You're probably the only person I know who has such bad luck with his wingman that this can happen to him in WC1. In everyone else's they just squawk until they explode, and the Colonel goes along with the idea that kats got them.

"...but sir! There ARE stealth fighters! That's how Maniac bought it..."

"Well done pilot. Your skill in evading stealth fighters is commendable. Here's a medal and a new rapier. Have at it."

"sweet"
 
The best approach that I found for handling ships with turrets, whne you're in a lighter, faster fighter, is the maneuver that WWII pilots used to call the "scissors" or the "vertical scissors".

Close to gun range, then aim about 30-45° above (or to the side) of your target. Now swing your nose down (or sideways) past the target and fire at the appropriate moment. Keep turning till you're 30-45° beyond him, then swing back, and repeat. You'll end up zig-zagging behind him and making yourself very hard to hit, while you always can fire periodic shots right at him. A side benefit is that you make yourself harder to hit also for fighters trying to tail you (or for youw own wingmen). Tapping your burners occasionally, especially timed just before his shots, will make you even harder to hit.

It makes your gunnery a little more difficult, especially if you're tapping your burners, and requires a good bit of practice, but when you get good at it, you should be able to handle turreted fighters much more easily. It'll be especially vital when you get to WC3 and have to tangle with corvettes and Pahktahns.

As to your own turrets, they DO fire on their own. Your gunners just suck. Mine could never hit anything, so if I actually wanted effective turrets, I had to man them myself. So usually I just didn't bother. I would just shoot down all the fighters flying head to head, and once they all were gone, then I would start my torpedo runs. This had the secondary benefit that I could fly my torps in really close and make sure they hit (if you just lock on and then man your turrets, your ship will autofire the torps when your torpedoes get a lock...which, depending on your speed and the range at the start of the run, can be as far out as 5000-6000 klicks, in which case, a Ralatha or a Fraltha will shoot them down easily with their flak cannons long before they hit).
 
1.) Wing Commander II: Vengeance Of The Kilrathis is not a fun game simply because of the taint of a ship called the Jalkehi. These things frustrate me so much that I get no enjoyment from the game. I tail ONE Jalkehi and completely take out the front shields and then pound THREE missiles into the the rear a it's still alive! Then, out of missiles, I keep pounding it with full guns and it still DOESN'T die. Of course by now I'm being tailed by four other Jalkehi who have been shooting me all this time and if I use my rear turret the one in front of me instantly turns around and pounds me and my idiotic wingman is either ejected or running like a coward. Seriously, these ships and the others like them in this game are so cheap as to suck all the fun out of the game. No other ship I've ever seen in a Wing Commander game is so annoyingly hard to face- it seriously just ruins the game for me.

2.) The original game aside, all other Wing Commander titles are far easier then this game and the movie ones in particular have difficulty settings so I can enjoy the game rather then play the same mission over and over and end of up having a horrible time rather then, you know- have fun. . .

Okay, rant over- I seriously dislike this game.

-Ryan P. Fialcowitz
 
It sounds like you're either in a Broadsword or a Sabre. Can I ask which mission you're trying specifically?

Some general tips:

Don't try anything fancy in the Broadsword. Just pound away with the Mass Drivers until the Jalkehi go away. If the pounding from the rear gets too much, switch to the turret and fire manually for a quick burst. It should be enough to make the Jalkehi break off without sacrificing much time at the controls.

It sounds like you're being too predictable in the Sabre. You can't just sit behind a fighter and exchange fire, especially with his wingcats going after you. Use quick bursts of your afterburner to keep outside of the rear turret's arc and to shake off the cats on your tail. Also, don't get too focused, if you're getting torn up from the rear, turn around and give them something in return.

Like Paladin says in Claw Marks only take the hit if the target's vital and you're sure your shields will survive it. Otherwise, break off and come back to it. As long as you've punched through the shields you'll still cause permament damage and can chip away.

Frankly, I always hated Grikaths more than the Jalkehi and you definitely won't be happy when the Gothri show up.
 
To be serious for a moment, there are times when I have used the turrets to my advantage. When I find myself overwhelmed by enemy fighters in a Broadsword or Crossbow, I'll sometimes purposely slow down, fly straight and level, and switch to my rear turret. Those neutrons will take down the heaviest cat fighters in no time. At the very least, it turns them away, allowing you to target their wingmen until the original attacker resumes course.

Be easy on WC2. It's my favorite of the franchise. I think that with a little practice you will be much more effective against the turreted fighters.

(BTW - have you played WC3 or 4 on their highest difficulty settings? I find it hard to believe that WC2 is the 'hardest'...)
 
(BTW - have you played WC3 or 4 on their highest difficulty settings? I find it hard to believe that WC2 is the 'hardest'...)

WC4 could come off as the hardest because of the power of missiles. WCP/SO/Standoff are pretty intense on nightmare.


I'm not sure how you can dislike WC2. It may be slightly more difficult than the first, but it is by no means extremely hard to complete.
 
1.) Wing Commander II: Vengeance Of The Kilrathis is not a fun game simply because of the taint of a ship called the Jalkehi. These things frustrate me so much that I get no enjoyment from the game.

I used to feel the exact same way; the Jalkehi felt like a cruel, demonic force, after how I was able to tail anything I wanted in WC1 with impunity. It takes practice, for sure- sharpen your skills at all the tactics everyone else has stated and you'll get the hang of it. Eventually the Jalkehi are downright easy after you play for awhile, and then the Gothri and Grikath come out to play.

Although, I share the sentiment that WC4 is much harder than this game if you don't tone things down to rookie- I used to ignore missiles half the time, but they're death incarnate in 4.
 
1.) Wing Commander II: Vengeance Of The Kilrathis is not a fun game simply because of the taint of a ship called the Jalkehi. These things frustrate me so much that I get no enjoyment from the game. ... No other ship I've ever seen in a Wing Commander game is so annoyingly hard to face- it seriously just ruins the game for me.

For the life of me, I've never figured out why some people absolutely seem to loathe the Jalkehi. In all honesty, I never found them that difficult at all. A wing of Drakhai Sartha is way more dangerous. Sometimes in missions I'd see a bunch of red dots on my radar, get scared, target one of them, and then think "Whew, only Jalkehi. I was worried there for a minute". In my experience, they were slow, and non-maneuverable, have a huge target profile, fly in a predictable manner, and their rear-gun was way less accurate than a Grikhath's (which, incidentally is faster). You can dance around them, stay out of their front guns, evade their rear turret, and just pound till they die. Yes their armor is kind of thick (although not so much as a Grikath or Gothri), and they do have a reargun, and theorretically powerful front guns (although often they seem to only use their particles), but in my mind they're the equivalent of the WC1 Krants... take time to shoot down and kind of annoying in numbers, but nothing to write home about.

On the other hand, I hated fighting waves of Sartha that gang up on you with their damned neutron guns (like Dralthi II's from SM2), and Grikhaths were nightmares (really effective rear turrets, hard-to-hit target profiles, and pretty fast and well armored, too). But it was Gothri that really took a lot of the fun out of the game (how do I hate thee, let me count the ways, rear gun, fast, thick armor, quick charging shields, maneuverable, powerful forward guns, usually flown by Drakhai).

Maybe it's a function of flying style. I tend to be more like Iceman in style (a dancer who likes to get in, mix it up, and rely on maneuvers to save me) rather than Knight (a steady handed straight flyer) or Angel (a careful gunner that snipes from a distance)--maybe some styles work better against some fighters than others.

2.) The original game aside, all other Wing Commander titles are far easier then this game and the movie ones in particular have difficulty settings so I can enjoy the game rather then play the same mission over and over and end of up having a horrible time rather then, you know- have fun. . .

If you're playing on the higher difficultiles, WC4 is definitely the hardest game. Not only are missiles far more deadly than in any other game (as they should be), but the AI is probably the best combat-sim type AI I have ever encountered. The computer players actually act like humans--working together to put superior numbers to use, pulling off creative and unexpected maneuvers that play up the difference between their ships and mine, etc. I was tailing a Vindicator close to a planet surface once in a Hellcat, and flying a good deal faster than he was, and all of a sudden he hit the brakes and dived for the deck. I was going to fast to duplicate his maneuver and was foced to pull up and fly above him. He then had a perfect view of my tailpipe and ended my day with a HS. I swear, there wa a little guy in my computer flying that fighter, not an AI!

And incidentally, WC is one of the few games where you do not have to fly the same mission over and over. If you fail, then live with the consequence and keep playing. Some of the funnest and most interesting missions are on the losing tracks!
 
For the life of me, I've never figured out why some people absolutely seem to loathe the Jalkehi.

Simple- in WC1 you could tail an enemy with impunity if nothing else was shooting directly at you. Made things too easy, and the Jalkehi suddenly requires us to learn how to fly. Some of our brains don't exactly fire on all cylinders, and it took us more than a few trashed fighters to get a grip.
 
I finally managed to beat the mission in question after I stopped relying so much on the I.T.T.S. and I started to, very slowly, get some kills. It was very tough but I finally completed the mission. It was the first K'tithrak Mang mission and I couldn't deal with that many Jalkehi. Ironically I found the mob of Sartha in the last mission to be more troublesome. I swear Wing Commander games would be so much easier if your wing mates actually worked together and with you. I can't count how many times they disobey a direct order . . . in the real military that would be a sure fire ticket to a court marshal. . .

-Ryan P. Fialcowitz
 
Of all the Kilrathi fighters in WC2, I hated the Grikaths the most. Drakhri fighters also tended to sometimes take forever to wipe out. I did not find Gothris that difficult, and Jalkehis were not too tricky. Good job in getting to K'Tithrak Mang, but expect some swearing when you encounter Fralthras and their anti matter guns.
 
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