WC2 Era Escort Carriers

[Bandit LOAF]

IIRC, we see Arrows in the Wing Commander: Academy cartoon. T-Bolts are probably the newest fighters in that list, at least according to files extracted from WC3.

Arrows, Hellcats and Longbows all show up in 'cameos' on Wing Commander Academy. The age for the Thunderbolt is established, IIRC, by the Wing Commander III Authorized Combat Guide - which claims they've been around for six months (as of the start of WC3). That'd put their service entry in 2668.

The End Run novel specifically refers to the 4 carriers at Vukar Tag to all be part of the remaining 7(?) ships that Confed considers to be their fleet carrier force, with the Gettysburg being refered to as if she counted as a full fledged confleet carrier rather than a simple modified through-deck cruiser.

Could the 'burg have been more of a replacement model(Like the Austin in SM2) rather than intending to be a Waterloo?

I guess it's about time we deal with the Gettysburg issue.

My favored way of looking at it is that the Gettysburg is only listed in End Run's various narrations because its so important to Jason - and that there's a fourth, unnamed fleet carrier in the battlegroup. I'm fairly sure it's possible to the point of reasonable to look at the references to the ship in this manner.

The alternate comes from Captain Johnny's bible, which is the tried and true 'can be configured as a carrier' option. I have trouble with this for a few reasons: Special Operations 1 specifically classifies her as a cruiser, the later Kilrathi Saga manual goes though lengths to explain the 'large' fighter complement as being normal and we can find seven fleet carriers in service in 2667 without including Gettysburg.

On another note, are the Ranger-class carriers named for famous carriers of the past? Again, I don't have any of the books so I haven't the extra information to check any of my theories, but I'm guessing they are seeing as how the USS Ranger and HMS Victory were both WWII carriers.

While I don't doubt that there was an HMS Victory in World War II, I'd imagine that the TCS Victory is named after Admiral Nelson's flagship... (she's even got a Shuttle Horatio Nelson).

(Wing Commander has always played fairly fast and loose with its name origins... there'll be a couple that share an apparent pattern and then just as many that don't.)

Speaking of carriers, though, anyone care to conjecture a lifespan date for Ranger-class carriers? The ships database here says that the Victory was slated to be retired in the 2660s, and going by the only standard I have (the U.S. Navy), the lifespan of a carrier is somewhere around 50 years (basing this on projections that the USS John F. Kennedy will remain in service until around 2018). So, I'm guessing that the Ranger-classes were being first built in say...the 2610s? Any thoughts?

Focusing on transports was certainly new - but we see plenty of cross border raiding... like the Tiger's Claw during Operation Thor's Hammer (and its followup, SM1.5).

Speaking of carriers, though, anyone care to conjecture a lifespan date for Ranger-class carriers? The ships database here says that the Victory was slated to be retired in the 2660s, and going by the only standard I have (the U.S. Navy), the lifespan of a carrier is somewhere around 50 years (basing this on projections that the USS John F. Kennedy will remain in service until around 2018). So, I'm guessing that the Ranger-classes were being first built in say...the 2610s? Any thoughts?

According to... the WC3 novel, I believe... the Ranger-class was already fifty years old when the Victory herself was comissioned (in 2634) - so, ~2584 for the class, 2634 for the Victory.

 

[Mad Cow]

According to... the WC3 novel, I believe... the Ranger-class was already fifty years old when the Victory herself was comissioned (in 2634) - so, ~2584 for the class, 2634 for the Victory.

Ah... I'm going to have to get these books.

 

[SabreAce]

There weren't any broadswords retrofitted as SWACs craft, they had corvettes to do that job instead.

Blair flies a Broadsword in Niven that Angel says has been rigged to detect Kilrathi jump trails...sounds rather SWACS-ish to me, in terms of the recon data at least.

My guess is that in addition to the strike element of four broadswords, there would also be perhaps two more broadswords, one retrofitted as an SAR platform, the other as an SWACS

Sabres seem to be in the SAR role as of WC2, though the Broadsword could do it as well, given the tractor beams it carries. My impression would be that the higher speed of the Sabre would make it preferable for SAR - less time that a pilot's floating around out there, or risking getting captured by the Kilrathi.

 

[Nob Akimoto]

I guess it's about time we deal with the Gettysburg issue.

My favored way of looking at it is that the Gettysburg is only listed in End Run's various narrations because its so important to Jason - and that there's a fourth, unnamed fleet carrier in the battlegroup. I'm fairly sure it's possible to the point of reasonable to look at the references to the ship in this manner.

The alternate comes from Captain Johnny's bible, which is the tried and true 'can be configured as a carrier' option. I have trouble with this for a few reasons: Special Operations 1 specifically classifies her as a cruiser, the later Kilrathi Saga manual goes though lengths to explain the 'large' fighter complement as being normal and we can find seven fleet carriers in service in 2667 without including Gettysburg.

The problem here is the bit with Tolwyn and Banbridge talking about Vukar in Chapter XII

Quoted specifically:
"We won Vukar by the skin of our teeth. We lost the Trafalgar and Gettysburg will be in dry dock for a year...."

As the exchange was about carrier assets in the Enigma(?) sector at the time, it seems relatively reasonable to suggest that the Gettysburg was the 4th carrier at Vukar, particularly given in light of the quote's source and context.

While I don't doubt that there was an HMS Victory in World War II, I'd imagine that the TCS Victory is named after Admiral Nelson's flagship... (she's even got a Shuttle Horatio Nelson).

There's only been one HMS Victory in continuous commission in the RN over the past 250 years, that being Jervis' flagship at St. Vincent and Nelson's at Trafalgar.

 

[Bandit LOAF]

Eh, that conversation doesn't really make sense either way - because they specify 'for this sector' at the end.

 

[Death]

Blair flies a Broadsword in Niven that Angel says has been rigged to detect Kilrathi jump trails...sounds rather SWACS-ish to me, in terms of the recon data at least.

Not necessarily. Today's fighters have sensor pods that can be fitted to them to perform tactical recon, but that doesn't make them AWACS substitutes.

(A/S)WACS aren't used solely for detection capability (though they do have that), but also directing the disposition of forces using the gathered information. Simply having the data from a sensor pod isn't enough; you need to be able to direct the "pointy end" folks where to go to make use of that info.

 

[TC]

(A/S)WACS aren't used solely for detection capability (though they do have that), but also directing the disposition of forces using the gathered information. Simply having the data from a sensor pod isn't enough; you need to be able to direct the "pointy end" folks where to go to make use of that info.

It seems rather clear from fleet action that Confed doesn't use this method of fighter dispatching until at least after the time period of that novel.

 

[SabreAce]

(A/S)WACS aren't used solely for detection capability (though they do have that), but also directing the disposition of forces using the gathered information. Simply having the data from a sensor pod isn't enough; you need to be able to direct the "pointy end" folks where to go to make use of that info.

Except in Prophecy, they never use the "And Control System" part of the SWACS...just the Spaceborn Warning/recon capabilities. The Seahawk functioned more as a recon ship than it did a futuristic Boeing E-3.

 

[Ijuin]

I think they were around, just not on the front lines. The Victory herself was certainly in active service during the WC2 era, based on various 'few years ago' references in the novel.

Eisen tells us that he was a helmsman for the Victory when she was first commissioned. Based on that, and on the general attitude that the Victory is old and falling apart, I would expect her to be twenty or thirty years old--she would have been active back when Blair and Maniac were cadets.

As far as I can tell, the Ranger class carriers are basically scaled-down versions of the Concordia class (or did the Rangers come first, in which case the Concordia would have been a bigger, better counterpart of the Ranger?).

 

[Bandit LOAF]

Rangers would have come first.