I'm sorry, I forgot to recognize the plethora of quality, original writings I've been seeing from someone with an "Advanced English Degree."

Thank you-- I was originally surprised someone with an Advanced English Degree didn't understand where I was coming from. I'm glad to see you appreciate my originality of thought though.

I'm not sure what you're talking about - you may be confusing me with someone else. I don't have any sort of special degree, and I've certainly never bragged about whatever credentials I do hold (I doubt anyone here knows what my specialty is... it is most certainly irrelevant to pretty much anything we could ever talk about). Is that why you're acting like a crazy person? You think I'm some kind of academic braggart picking on the little people? I most certainly am not.

And in all fairness the remark was a comment on the re-education camps of Communist China, where even more so than Soviet Russia, those who disagreed disappeared for twenty years to reappear in public as a reformed citizen. The comment was made in remark that the decision making here works very much like a totalitarian government, and not so much similar to Lenin's brand of Communism as you so quickly took offense.

No, you were being a very, very generic internet loser. "Disagree with me?! Then you're {X bad concept}!" We don't tolerate that crap here.

I also don't see, anywhere specifically, where Pedro started any offense enough to warrant a ban.

Pedro is a past offender who shows up every few months to start a fight. We have very little patience for such scum. We will unban him in a few days, he'll show up again in a few months and this will all happen again. It's a stupid cycle that doesn't involve you in the least.

Congratulations! Instead of acting like an adult, and personally discussing this with him, you decided to use your powers of persuasion to make him shut up. You're a role model for us all.

You must not be familiar with our system. When someone is banned, it is a message to them that they need to talk to us about the issue -- in *private*. Pedro's problems aren't a wonderful spectacle that you have some right to observe.

Actually I'm referring to the writings of J.S. Mill in On Liberty in the thought that one's freedoms, be they freedom of speech or the right to pursue happiness, only constitutionally extends as far as the freedoms you enjoy not impeding others. Constitutionally you can only take your freedoms so far-- you cannot exercise your freedom of speech at 3:00 a.m. outside your neighbor’s window without problems arising.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, adorable -- I'm not talking about the Constitution, I'm talking about whatever my conlaw class said it was based on! You forgot to stick your tongue out. Great as that is, you make my point for me: Pedro has no inherent right to come pick a fight in my house.
I guess that's possible -- but it's an awfully stupid thing to be bitter at *me* for. It sounds like Flex is angry about some awful misconception at me... I can't see that coming from Chris telling someone that I'm an English major. It's not something I ever talk about at all.
Dyret said:
Maybe he is confused about this post?

Probably, and that's double ridiculous, because LOAF himself never talks about his credentials at all.

Flex said:
I also don't see, anywhere specifically, where Pedro started any offense enough to warrant a ban.

Flex said:
There have been worse things said on these boards without a word said than the offense Pedro gave.

And what offense would that be? You have no clue why Pedro was banned, so you're in no position to judge what repercussions there should be.

Flex said:
A community can be a exclusive thing-- but not this video game community. This site is public, giving news to anyone who wants to come and spend the time to read the words. Anyone, by just reading the boards, or the site, can become a member of this community. Who is anyone to tell them that because of their words, the community doesn't want them?

You have a broken interpretation of what "public" means. This was made evident earlier when you tried to apply your silly tirade on rules for the US government to a privately run message board. No internet forum is like the college protest square you're thinking of. Real people spend a lot of time and money maintaining message boards, and they don't do it so trouble makers can get off on the response to their smarmy passive aggressive crap.

Flex said:
That being said, I'm probably due for a ban myself, as I just exercised that very same right.

All in due time. We'll be sure to use this as a good example to others of how not to wedge yourself into a discussion first.
Flex said:
The comment was made in remark that the decision making here works very much like a totalitarian government, and not so much similar to Lenin's brand of Communism as you so quickly took offense.

Every communism is totalitarian. But the CIC is not. Me being here is evidence of that. You know, the deal with totalitarianism is coercion and collectivism. I'd say the CZ, as any good forum, is a predominantly benevolent dictatorship. Every democratic, i.e., unmoderated public forum is bound to suck. The use of the authority of moderation will always be a problematic and unpopular one everywhere. And while this is public in the sense that people can come, register and post, it's a privately run place.
This is about UE2? We're begining to get off-track here.

The Maniac

P.S.-And Flex, you should read the last sentance of my signature. <gulps>
Your signature is dumb -- people don't need to *agree* with me, they need to follow the Chat Zone's rules. I'm happy to debate anyone about any sort of Wing Commander issue, agreement doesn't factor into this.
PopsiclePete said:
Well, first thing first, we'll finish Standoff first. Have you tried it's first episodes yet ?

Of course, and Its fantastic, superior to UE even, Ive even done all the branching missions like "back route to sirrius", but theres something about the comm officer that makes you want to hit him when you've failed a mission, I'd like to see him go out and fight.
We're not working on UE2 at the moment. Actually, while I can't speak for the rest of the team, I don't ever intend to work on UE2.

I will admit, I am thinking about what I might like to do in a future mod - there's plenty of ideas, that's for sure, even if I'm still reeling from Standoff (and Standoff isn't finished! We've still got at least one more patch to go). But I would not want to go back to the UE storyline - there's far too much fun stuff in the WC universe to bother with sequels.

(and besides, looking back after all these years, there's quite a few problems in the UE storyline - it's a very fannish piece of work...)
why is standoff not finished? what kind of patch are you intending to make?

what kinds of problems are there in ue stoyline ? ( I havent played it)
You're asking about a sequel to a game you haven't played? :)

The problem with UE's story is that it was designed to incorporate as many features as possible. Not on a selective basis, but rather anything that occured to us and seemed like it might be fun was immediately written into the story. Some of that just means the game was a bit chaotic and overloaded with half-used features (e.g., asteroid fighters, jamming, etc.) - that we can live with. In fact, that kind of thing is usually a good starting point for a sequel. But then, there are also features that simply do not fit in with the rest of the universe, and spoil the story - things like the Border Worlds equipping their fighters with a rapid-fire capship-killing gun, and other such stuff.

As for Standoff, the patch is just basic maintenance stuff - there's still a few bug reports that we haven't taken care of. Besides that, we've also (still! Pierre, where are you? ;) ) got some unfinished simulator missions - that is to say, they haven't been re-worked to work with the online scoreboard.
Yeah, I was just asking out of curiosity. I am planning to start UE soon and I just wanted to know, how long I must wait for the part 2 :)

so to sum it up: no UE2, okay

thanks for the info on standoff

and besides: awesome work on that game, I am really impressed and happy that we got such talented people in the community. keep it up! :)
Thanks. It's always great to hear that someone enjoyed our work :).

It might not be too good for you that you're going to play UE after Standoff - it's going to be a bit of a shock, because it's a much less polished piece of work. But hopefully, as long as you keep in mind when it was made (eight years ago) and under what circumstances (we were only learning to mod WCP back then, and had much less experience, not to mention tools), you should be able to appreciate the game. I do think that, for all of its flaws, UE was almost as good as we were able to make it back then. There's one or two small details we could have done better even with our knowledge at the time, but they're not worth quibbling about.
I played Standoff episode 1-4 in the past and just started UE to see if it runs, so far.

I realized quickly, that the graphics of standoff is much better and standoff is of a higher programming quality.

but I don`t care for that. I am some sort of a hardcore fan and played the games since I was 7 ( I am 25 now), so I saw everything from WC1 to WCP ;) and I care more for the story and the gameplay than the graphics ( except for that glide wrapper.. I dont like the 3dfx emulating, HCL High res pack is much better ;) )

and in fact I think UE is not too bad at all, I like the story with the border worlds :)
Besides that, we've also (still! Pierre, where are you? ;) ) got some unfinished simulator missions - that is to say, they haven't been re-worked to work with the online scoreboard.
I am here, just very busy, man... also, why use the plural when talking of the single sim mission that isn't done yet ? :p
Oh, it's just one mission? I couldn't remember, so I took a look at the scoreboard, where there's more than one mission missing :). I forgot that the other two are just waiting for release.