Tiger Claw armament

Deathsnake said:
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Snakeir and Bengal in close combat :)
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I like the glow you have as a muzzle flash! And the game lighting really shows off the model well.

So, the movie Bengal. Does anyone recall it ever firing anything but torpedoes during the film? I did a quick scrub through but couldn't see anything... and the only turrets I could see in evidence were the ones drawn in that cutaway art; above. Makes me wonder whether '22 Point Defence' really was just to flesh out the handbook, and not really ever considered as actual armament. Sure, it references the games a little, but can you ever recall 22 weapon firing points coming from the Tiger Claw?
 
Don't remember seeing it. And all the flak fire was around the kilrathi cap ships.

But looking at the flak and other special effects, I think it was just a technical issue. Heck after the full scramble we didnt see any other rapiers except for Angel's wing. I'd imagine a few flying around the Claw shooting those torps and Dralthi. :/
 
Thats it. After looking at the Claw Marks blueprints, its clear that this will never be completely solved - it states 8 dual laser turrets, when it clearly has more than that in the line drawing (I count 16).

I'm sticking with what I can see in the drawings & movie stills/captures. Thats 4 on the topside, 2 at the rear below the engines, and presumably 2 on the underside somewhere. Does it also appear to everyone that there are 2 huge guns at the front? Or are they some kind of engine?
 
Well, to be honest, I would also take into consideration the intent of the vessel. It's a strike carrier after all - so I would agree there should be some larger 'caliber' weapons onboard, even if they are not explicitly spelled out in Claw Marks or visible in the movie.
 
Well, to be honest, I would also take into consideration the intent of the vessel. It's a strike carrier after all - so I would agree there should be some larger 'caliber' weapons onboard, even if they are not explicitly spelled out in Claw Marks or visible in the movie.
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That's the eight laser turrets--they're heavier lasers for ship-to-ship work.

The torpedo armament, and the age of the design in general, probably explain why there are no antimatter guns.
 
Thats it. After looking at the Claw Marks blueprints, its clear that this will never be completely solved - it states 8 dual laser turrets, when it clearly has more than that in the line drawing (I count 16).
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I count twenty in the Claw Marks picture.

- 4 dual-mount turrets on the front of the 'wings'
- 4 dual-mount turrets on the upper hull, astride the conning tower
- 3 dual-mount turrets in a cluster at the rear of the upper hull
- 1 dual-mount turret on the upper hull between the triple-cluster and the conning tower
- 2 dual-mount turrets facing forward on the forward hull at either side of the flight deck
- 2 dual-mount turrets on either side of the 'wings'
- 1 triple-mount turret facing forward at the bottom of the conning tower
- 3 dual-mount turrets running the length of the lower hull's centerline

(While we're at it, the 'VDU drawing' shows 15 turrets, all of which more-or-less match up to points on the Claw Marks picture. I'll have to compare this all to my WCA notes when I get home...)
 
So for the movie version we assume:

8x Heavy Laser Turrets
22x Light point defense mass drivers (as is referenced in the novels)
40 Torpedo Tubes

Btw, which novels? Movie novelization/pilgrim novels? Or End Run/Actions Stations etc.? If its the latter I might ignore it, as I'm trying to get closest to the film, not the games.

Oh, and context:

5v0jep.jpg


Yee haw. So I guess gameplay considerations are in effect also - like adding missile 'point defense' perhaps... I'd be interested to find what all y'all think might be cool.
 
Btw, which novels? Movie novelization/pilgrim novels? Or End Run/Actions Stations etc.? If its the latter I might ignore it, as I'm trying to get closest to the film, not the games.
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The person who mentioned mass drivers was talking about the torpedo defense systems that show up in the Baen novels, so it shouldn't be anything applicable here. "Point defense" as used in the Handbook typically refers to fighter-level lasers--the kind you actually see the 'Claw defended by in the game.

One description of turret placement from the movie novelization, though: "Eight dual laser turrets had been mounted equidistantly apart on her hull and covered the full sphere of vacuum. A main battery jutted out from each half of her bow, and triangular sleeves of battle-scarred armor shielded personnel operating the big cannons. The sealed hatches of missile tubes subtly reminded her enemies that even more death lay within her bowels."
 
Well aware of HLP, been poking around those boards for years (don't post often).

I was planning to release a campaign, but the amount of times i have battled with exporters, pivot points, helpers etc. etc. is just maddening, so I have scaled back somewhat. Will probably just release what I have made once they are all playable & working correctly. Was going to wait until the WC Saga team release their game, then make sure it works as a mod for that (as it will be the most compatible and have correct weapons/effects to be SLIGHTLY canon...).

Have currently made a Rapier (in my sig), Broadsword, Errant (with a little cargo module) and the Bengal, above. Had plans to do a bunch of Kilrathi ships from the movie, was also going to release a bunch of original designs for 'Pilgrim' craft. But as I mentioned, I'm just totally sick of the roundabout process to get things working. I've realised I just don't have the time anymore to do such an ambitious project, so I'm just tidying up everything and going to blast it out. And so we come full circle - I need to finish the Bengal, and that involves figuring out the weapons!
 
Wojo said:
I was planning to release a campaign, but the amount of times i have battled with exporters, pivot points, helpers etc. etc. is just maddening, so I have scaled back somewhat. Will probably just release what I have made once they are all playable & working correctly...

Have currently made a Rapier (in my sig), Broadsword, Errant (with a little cargo module) and the Bengal, above. Had plans to do a bunch of Kilrathi ships from the movie, was also going to release a bunch of original designs for 'Pilgrim' craft. But as I mentioned, I'm just totally sick of the roundabout process to get things working. I've realised I just don't have the time anymore to do such an ambitious project, so I'm just tidying up everything and going to blast it out. And so we come full circle - I need to finish the Bengal, and that involves figuring out the weapons!
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It's cool to see the movie ships getting some attention none the less. I've had the idea of a mod with missions based around the movie scenes plugged into something like the secret ops engine. I don't imagine I'd get to it any time soon but it's something that's always in the back of my mind
 
I was going to cover a scenario leading up to the siege of Peron - actually was originally doing movie-esque versions of a hornet & scimitar, but decided that was re-inventing the wheel, especially with klavs awesome models around: https://www.wcnews.com/chatzone/attachments/1-jpg.4855/

So re-designed them to be pilgrim craft. I may re-visit them later, but will just slam together what I have and release it, so at least if I don't get finished with the whole thing I have at least got SOMETHING out there after so many years... (I started this idea in 2009!!!)
 
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Since I had a few minutes, I figured I would take a few screenshots of the movie...

I've circled the interesting bits. Note that there are a few turrets noticable on the top line of the claw. I think they're also visible on the cutaway poster. There's also two double barreled 'big' guns on the side under that raised section of hull panels. You can see them from a few different angles in the shots.

Produce.wmv_snapshot_00.15.59_[2011.10.10_12.39.20].jpg Produce.wmv_snapshot_00.35.35_[2011.10.10_12.43.21].jpg Produce.wmv_snapshot_00.49.51_[2011.10.10_12.48.19].jpg Produce.wmv_snapshot_00.49.55_[2011.10.10_12.48.53].jpg Produce.wmv_snapshot_00.50.29_[2011.10.10_12.52.04].jpg

In two of the shots you can see info about some of the torpedo launchers. Not including the two frond facing launchers on the bottom of the ship you can see that there's at least twelve launchers along the side in that portion of the hull that bulbs out.
Produce.wmv_snapshot_01.22.02_[2011.10.10_13.19.58].jpg Produce.wmv_snapshot_01.22.04_[2011.10.10_13.20.52].jpg
 
Gah! Just when I thought I had it right! Funny, this is actually closer to the way I had it months ago... Thanks for taking the time to do this for me AD!

So, we have 8 Dual Laser turrets - 4 of which I assume are under those hull veranda type things. I would guess the other 4 might be on the underside, covering that area (going by the comment from the movie novelization; above). Then we have 22 single-barrel guns scattered in blisters all over the place. I don't know what to do about the 'main batteries' mentioned in the novel - they don't appear in the handbook OR the film (at least, we do not see them fire - even when the claw is head-on to a kilrathi capship).

The handbook lists 40 torpedo tubes - we assume 24 of those are along those cylindrical sections. There are several on the underside front of the hull, and the handbook states a bunch more around the bow. I would guess several at the stern also (aft torpedoes, fire! Yay).

I'm tempted to make the 22 point defence guns 'flak' style guns. We never saw the claw fire any type of gun, only torpedoes, so I feel ok doing some retcon-style interpretation ;) The appearance of flak around the kilrathi ship gives this a little creedence - the tech is around, even if its not confed. Might explain why we never saw it too - would not be effective against capships. No idea why the claw wouldn't bother using their laser turrets though.
 
The Handbook seems to show sixteen torpedoes on each side, plus an unspecified number of forward tubes. Nothing aft.
 
Its weird though... the handbook clearly distinguishes 'Torpedo' from 'Missile'... and those 16 ports on the side are labelled 'Missile Launch' while the tubes at the front are labelled as we expect; 'Torpedo'... Those missile ports on the side are also down low, in a different place from where they launch in the film (see AD's screenshot, above). Also going by the handbook, I count 44 tubes.

You know what, I'm giving up. Obviously the differences between the novels, the film & the handbook can never be resolved completely. Any differences on mine can be explained away by NOT labelling the ship as the 'Tiger Claw'. (I've been going with the preliminary name of 'Saber Tooth')

Based on gameplay considerations as well as appearance in film & notes in Handbook/novels:

2x Forward Anti-matter cannons (the BIG guns)
8x Dual Laser Turrets; 4 per side, placed under hull veranda plating
22x Point Defense Flak Turrets:
8x Topside plating
4x Underside plating
2x Rear engine bay
4x Forward bow section (above & below anti-matter guns)
4x Centerline (around flight deck & hangar sections)

40x Torpedo Tubes
24x Broadside (along cylindrical section)
16x Forward

32x Missile Tubes (16x per side)

Its unlikely I will use all of these, however. The broadsides in the film appear to be under recessed panels that retract for that purpose - I could very well just ignore them.

So, any major complaints? I'm trying to find a balance between gameplay and accuracy, and 22 laser turrets just seems like overkill. Plus gameplay wise its just a little... boring.
 
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