Thrakkath's Luck

[Delance]

Allright, Prince Thrakkath had a great plan. He did some crazy experiment with Ralgha nar Hallas and had the perfect spy. It worked great for a while, since with all those Kilrathi worlds joining Confed, Hobbes was important politically. By WC3, however, Hobbes was nobody with confed. Second in command on a backup light carrier, everyone was suspicious of him. As a spy, he would be pretty much useless.

But Thrallath’s luck changed. Tolwyn decided to use the Victory to protect his most secret project.

Now think about the odds. Had Tolwyn choosen any other ship without Hobbes, there would be no leak. The behemoth would've had a shot!

And the interesting thing is that Blair had to be there. Not only because he was Hobbes friend, but to allow the secret keyword to be used. How would Thrakkath use the “Heart of the Tiger” on a phrase if Blair wasn’t on board?

“I’ve been talking to a captured terran veterinary… he told me about feline cardiac surgery… that he did… on THE HEART OF THE TIGER!”

 

[ptk]

lol

nice quote.

And you're right, he was pretty lucky, unless somebody in confed was helping him...

meh, I need sleep

 

[Viper61]

I don't think of the phrase "Heart of the Tiger" as having as much to do with it (even though Hobbes says "hearing your hero name" switched the Hobbes personality overlay off in both the video game cutscene and, IIRC, the novel) as the underlying frequency "clutter" that Rollins was complaining about (I think I remember that happening, or maybe thats my own construct to make it more believable ) in the transmission. I tend to think that the frequencies transmitted in the comm channel (probably overlaying the phrase "Heart of the Tiger") was the trigger, not the phrase itself.

C-ya

 

[Bandit LOAF]

It doesn't have to be Blair's hero name. The phrase was certainly assigned to Ralgha long before anyone even recognized Blair in the first place. Thrakhath could have used it in any context - even nonsensically - to awaken the sleeper agent.

As for the Victory - if you'll recall, Hobbes was one of the reasons Tolwyn chose it for the Behemoth operation (it has "a genuine expert on Kilrathi psychology"). That's probably exactly what Thrakhath was planning for. (As for Ralgha's assignment - it's reasonable to think that it was another case of Tolwyn shifting key personell into place. Hobbes had previously been a Wing Commander onboard a strike carrier...)

 

[overmortal]

Even so, what if Ralgha had been caught before he could deliver the Behemoth information to Thrakhath?

Really, the real question is, what if Behemoth had worked? Thrakhath might not have been dead, and may not have surrendered. Even if he did, Tolwyn's outlook on his career afterwards would have been quite different, and he may not have needed to pull his WCIV stunts.

Besides, I think Behemoth would have made a pretty convincing case against the bugs (at least for a good while). Heck, by them, we might have more than one . . . or, at least, a smaller version of the same thing.

 

[LeHah]

Really, the real question is, what if Behemoth had worked?

You pretty much answered your own question right there. If the Behemoth worked, we'd have a lot of fried cats. It may not have made it to Kilrah, per se, due to the size of the home fleet, but ConFleet sure would have made a damned good try at it.

 

[Bandit LOAF]

I don't really see a situation where Ralgha *could* have been caught before he transmitted the Behemoth information - before he did this, he wasn't a traitor... and so there'd be no way to catch him.

Re: The Behemoth
Even if we spacebattlesically ignore the 'unstable planet' limitation given in the WC3 novel, we cannot ignore the fact that against the Nephilim we are *completely* on the defensive. There's no enemy planets to destroy.

(Besides, it was the destruction of Kilrah that attracted the Nephilim to us in the first place...)

 

[xflvandamme]

Quote:Besides, I think Behemoth would have made a pretty convincing case against the bugs (at least for a good while). Heck, by them, we might have more than one . . . or, at least, a smaller version of the same thing.


Response: Boy I'll tell you that one of the things that pissed me off about Prophecy was this "gap" in technology. I know Confed didn't spend its peace time years building large guns to destroy planets, heck who would? But shouldn't at least every carrier be given some smaller version of what the Behemoth had to defend itself in case of emergency? Not to mention that the Behemoth could refire its cannon after like one day. The Midway used it up once, and could never use it again...

Speaking of technology what is up with no cloaking devices in Prophecy. If Confed had one advantage over the Kn'thrak in some way they should at least put one on the Panthers and Vampires...

 

[Haesslich]

Response: Boy I'll tell you that one of the things that pissed me off about Prophecy was this "gap" in technology. I know Confed didn't spend its peace time years building large guns to destroy planets, heck who would? But shouldn't at least every carrier be given some smaller version of what the Behemoth had to defend itself in case of emergency? Not to mention that the Behemoth could refire its cannon after like one day. The Midway used it up once, and could never use it again...

Speaking of technology what is up with no cloaking devices in Prophecy. If Confed had one advantage over the Kn'thrak in some way they should at least put one on the Panthers and Vampires...

Response:

re: Behemoth - why should Confed worry about putting 'smaller' versions of what was a planet-killing weapon on every ship? What's the point, especially for a carrier which is never meant to get close enough to the target to need a big gun in the first place? What good would a big gun do to a capship, given that it would draw a lot of power, make the ship slower due to the extra mass, and blow up in a spectacular fashion if it failed?

Besides, your comparison between Behemoth and the Bugs' fleet-killer plasma weapon is silly - we don't know whether or not Behemoth would've required refitting after each shot (replacement of containment coils, etc), or indeed whether a weapon designed to kill planets through would've worked on other ships in the first place. The Sivar's main cannon, for example, would not have been useful on a more mobile target than a planet. The Plasma Gun we seized from the Nephilim, on the other hand, was retrofitted onto the Midway without any understanding of how some of the inner components worked.

re: Cloaks - they DID have cloaks in Prophecy. Read the manual again - Major Washington's recon squadron had cloaked Excaliburs, but only his returned; the bugs apparently caught the other recon flights even with their cloaks up. Also, there's an edited-out conversation from WCP where Stiletto and Maestro confirm that Confed (and by implication, Kilrathi) cloaks do not work on the Bugs.

Stiletto: "Just stay cloaked until we work out if they’re friendly."
Maestro: "Um… they’re shooting at me. Guess they’re not friendly."
Stiletto: "Activate your cloaking device, Maestro!"
Maestro: "I am using my cloaking device, thank you very much. Must be broken."
Stiletto: "Hey! What? They’re shooting at me, too!"
Stiletto: 'Watch it, kids! They can see through our cloaking somehow!"

So much for that idea.

 

[Bandit LOAF]

Boy I'll tell you that one of the things that pissed me off about Prophecy was this "gap" in technology. I know Confed didn't spend its peace time years building large guns to destroy planets, heck who would? But shouldn't at least every carrier be given some smaller version of what the Behemoth had to defend itself in case of emergency?

The Behemoth isn't any sort of amazing new technology - it's a regular gun with eleven kilometers of fragile superconductors in front of it. And it took ten years to build. Making a *smaller* version defeats the purpose - and there isn't much of a point to making the big one standard issue. The only possible use for the Behemoth is genocide... and that's not exactly the sort of thing you get funding for during peacetime.

Not to mention that the Behemoth could refire its cannon after like one day. The Midway used it up once, and could never use it again...

The implication towards the end of Secret Ops is that Midway is now able to use its cannon whenever it wants.

Speaking of technology what is up with no cloaking devices in Prophecy. If Confed had one advantage over the Kn'thrak in some way they should at least put one on the Panthers and Vampires...

Kn'thrak is the Kilrathi word for armageddon - the aliens in WCP are 'Nephilim'. The real world explanation is that cloaking against AI just isn't fun - the in-game explanation is that all Prophecy ships have cloaks, but that the Nephilim can 'see through' them. It's mentioned in the manual (Confed, of course, developed anti-cloaking technology in the early seventies...)

 

[Delance]

I don't really see a situation where Ralgha *could* have been caught before he transmitted the Behemoth information - before he did this, he wasn't a traitor... and so there'd be no way to catch him.

He was doing the job for a while. We know that because we see Cobra and Rollins talking about the "unusual coded transmissions".

In fact, Cobra gets Hobbes in the act when he's sending more info on the Behemoth. Thrakkath later sees that info on a cutscene and laughts. I don't remember exactly if this is before or after Hobbes gets caught. IIRC it's before, so the damage was already done by the time they discover him.

Re: The Behemoth
Even if we spacebattlesically ignore the 'unstable planet' limitation given in the WC3 novel, we cannot ignore the fact that against the Nephilim we are *completely* on the defensive. There's no enemy planets to destroy.

TOLWYN: "Any target at the end of that point is destroyed."
EISEN: "Even a planet..."
TOLWYN: "Yes... if it's *really* unstable, you know."

We can only guess that the Behemoth could still do some massive damage on any world. If the Sivar Dreadnought was able to obliterate one terran colony, think about what the Behemoth could do, even with the WC3 novel anti-dramatic limitation.

 

[Bandit LOAF]

He was doing the job for a while. We know that because we see Cobra and Rollins talking about the "unusual coded transmissions".

In fact, Cobra gets Hobbes in the act when he's sending more info on the Behemoth. Thrakkath later sees that info on a cutscene and laughts. I don't remember exactly if this is before or after Hobbes gets caught. IIRC it's before, so the damage was already done by the time they discover him.

You're mixing up WC3. The Behemoth segment (where Thrakhath laughs) is over and done with long before Hobbes is discovered - he's transmitting data on the *T-Bomb* when he's caught (the PDA you find has Paladin giving a briefing on it).

TOLWYN: "Any target at the end of that point is destroyed."
EISEN: "Even a planet..."
TOLWYN: "Yes... if it's *really* unstable, you know."

We can only guess that the Behemoth could still do some massive damage on any world. If the Sivar Dreadnought was able to obliterate one terran colony, think about what the Behemoth could do, even with the WC3 novel anti-dramatic limitation.

We don't have to guess, as both WC3 and the WC3 novel are fairly specific in saying that the weapon will do massive damage to any world.

 

[Delance]

You're mixing up WC3. The Behemoth segment (where Thrakhath laughs) is over and done with long before Hobbes is discovered - he's transmitting data on the *T-Bomb* when he's caught (the PDA you find has Paladin giving a briefing on it).

Yes, correct! Thanks!

I remember now. I don't remember, but apparently Thrakkath didn't use this T-Bomb info in any useful manner.

 

[Bandit LOAF]

We don't know if Thrakhath ever recieved it - Cobra stopped Hobbes as he was sending it, and the novel storyline has Blair kill Ralgha before he can reach Thrakhath.

 

[Delance]

We don't know if Thrakhath ever recieved it - Cobra stopped Hobbes as he was sending it, and the novel storyline has Blair kill Ralgha before he can reach Thrakhath.

True. In fact, it was of the utmost importance to stop Hobbes at all costs because of all the information he could pass for the Kilrathi. That’s something that occurred to me while playing WC3.

Eisen was pissed because Blair put his needs above those of the ship, perhaps that action did prevent Thrakkath from gaining info on the T-bomb.

 

[overmortal]

Even though neither the game nor the novel specifically say so, I was under the impression that the Behemoth could possibly be used against spacebourne targets (other than planets). "Any target at the end of that point is destroyed." Kinda like the Sivar weapon was a bit too slow to use on spacebourne targets, but the confed reproduction was quite potent indeed . . . except when it failed and blew itself and everything attatched to it to kingdom come.

Also, if the Behemoth had succeeded in destroying Kilrah and ending the war, I would imagine that it would be taken back to the shipyard to have all of its weak points strengthened. "Laser turrets or keel mounts" and such, and probably more than that . . . maybe along with better power generators to beef up the shields.

 

[Bandit LOAF]

I believe it's specifically stated that the Behemoth takes too long to prime her weapon to be of any use against mobile targets.

 

[Chris Blair]

Still, it could theoretically destroy entire fleets, and besides blowing up worlds, I'd use the Behemoth to take out entire fleets not a single ship.

[That use of navy blue font was entirely unnecessary. Don't be an inconsiderate ass with vB functions. - Death]

 

[LeHah]

LOAF just said that the Behemoth is of little use against moving targets. And I'm sure the beam would cut through a few ships, but the resulting explosions would hardly be a chain reaction to take out an entire capital ship fleet involving heavily shielded carriers and destroyers.

 

[Delance]

I believe it's specifically stated that the Behemoth takes too long to prime her weapon to be of any use against mobile targets.

True, but space stations, artificial moons and shipyards would bite it!

We can only wonder if superior tech upgrades could allow the Behemoth to prime its weapon faster... Perhaps using some missile marker like Casey did with the Midway.

But it wasn’t to be. Confed had to win the war the old-fashioned way: with a climatic trench run with Mark Hamill.