This game is still alive but EA wants to kill it

Mr.Evil

Spaceman
Isn't it a wonder, how Wing Commander has survived almost 9 years since "Prophecy" has released??? :eek:

There was no sequel, just the more or less inofficial "Special Ops" and then... nothing.

What's the reason for it?
I think there is a kind of magic in this game, but I can't explain it.

But why da hell doesn't EA produce a "Prophecy 2"???
Don't they know this forum and don't they know, that WC still has a fan-community which is far bigger than the communities that other, new games have?
 
EA waits for the right moment to reactivate the label. It's like Volkswagen - they didn't build a Beetle for almost 20 years, then they launched the "New Beetle" - and although it was totally different from its namesake, the younger generations liked it.
 
But I have the feeling that EA does nothing different than producing only sequels of actual and successfull games.

Command & Conquer, Battle for Middle-Earth (that one is my favorite game at the moment!!!), Fifa, NHL, NBA, Need for Speed, ...

I don't really think they will ever produce a new WC.
Prophecy was 1997 and not as successfull as the ones before and EA might think that is is too risky to develope a new one.

The reason might be, that a game like WC is too complex for people who play very less, but too "dumb" for players knowing games like "Freelancer", with all the freedom the player has in it.
 
criticalmass said:
EA waits for the right moment to reactivate the label. It's like Volkswagen - they didn't build a Beetle for almost 20 years, then they launched the "New Beetle" - and although it was totally different from its namesake, the younger generations liked it.

So... we have to wait 20 years for a sequel ;)?
 
Mr.Evil said:
But I have the feeling that EA does nothing different than producing only sequels of actual and successfull games.

I don't really think they will ever produce a new WC.
Prophecy was 1997 and not as successfull as the ones before and EA might think that is is too risky to develope a new one.

Im in complete agreement.
Good to hear from someone with a sensible and realistic point of view for a change.
 
The bitter truth is:

Wing Commander, as we know and love it, is, regarding the gameplay, far too simple for the gamers of today.
It's nothing different then moving a joystick from one point to another and killing some enemies.
But hell, this is fun!
I remember nights full of dying Kilrathi and burning Nephilim.

However, a new Wing Commander wouldn't be a success without improvements in gameplay.
WC-Fans would feel the need to have that videos, that made all WCs since "Heart of the Tiger" cost a few million Dollars.
So a new WC would cost at least 5 Million Dollars I think and this is, in fact, a very risky project.

So I would suggest to "split" a new Wing Commander into two parts:

- one part is the loved acrade style as we know it
- the other part should be something like "Homeworld"

I was inspired by "Battle for Middle-Earth 2", that contains a game-mode called "War of the Ring". It's a bit like "Rome: Total War".
There, the player has the ability to conquer Middle-Earth in the style of "Civilization" and he also has the possibility to switch right into the battle, as known from Command & Conquer.

So, back to "my" new WC, the player should have the possibility (in a seperate mode) to have command over a whole Confed Fleet (maybe including building ship-yards, ships and so on) AND to fight as a pilot as known.

That would be a good way to make old fans happy and it also would be interesting for other, non WC-fanatic, players.


What do you think of this?
Battle for Middle-Earth has shown, that something like that is possible.
 
A new Wing Commander should only be done if it's going to preserve the things we loved about the originals. It shouldn't be a bastardization of previous principles and ideas (Freelancer) or a cheap attempt at improving what was a successful formula (Starlancer).

No my friends, Wing Commander must remain pure. From scramble missions to escorting transports to having control over your ship and fighting the good fight as a pilot.

The most disappointing moment other than Wing Commander being cancelled, was that Privateer Online was never released, that is the only feasible game I can see EA wanting to release.

They see Eve Online as a success, there is no real competitor, Privateer Online would decimate Eve Onlines population.

That is all.
 
EA is a game manufacturing machine. They stick to what works. Taking westwood : they took the name command and conquer, put it on a game with brilliant graphics, and removed the storyline. It sold because it was C&C and had sweet graphics, not because it was a good game. Although this is personal preference.

a new wing commander would have a much lower budget, i would imagine, than the previous ones. It would be ludicrus to spend countless millions from an EA point of view. Remember, the company doesn`t care about closure for a series, a company cares only about its shareholders. In the end, it`s to the shareholders that the company must respond to, not the fans of a series.

edit : the only reason i can see them actively marketing another WC, would be if another company hits it big with a space sim.
 
Dyret said:
What... the... hell... has... happened... to... the... CIC?


Any problems with my vision of a new Wing Commander? :D

Better a new, different, WC than never getting a new one.

You must admit, that a WC without significant gameplay-changes can't survive today.
As I was saying, the "old" WC is too simple for modern gamers.
 
CataclysmX said:
A new Wing Commander should only be done if it's going to preserve the things we loved about the originals. It shouldn't be a bastardization of previous principles and ideas (Freelancer) or a cheap attempt at improving what was a successful formula (Starlancer).

No my friends, Wing Commander must remain pure. From scramble missions to escorting transports to having control over your ship and fighting the good fight as a pilot.

Of course, I don't want these parts to be taken out!
BUT the game needs improvements in gameplay and the mode I explained should be nothing more than an addition to make it interesting for other players.

You have to think about how to get enough players that bring back the Dollars that were invested.

And there should be the ability to play online.
But to make the online-mode interesting, there can't be only a dogfight-mode.

WC NEEDS improvements, or EA will never produce a new one.
 
Mr.Evil said:
But I have the feeling that EA does nothing different than producing only sequels of actual and successfull games... Prophecy was 1997 and not as successfull as the ones before and EA might think that is is too risky to develope a new one.

Prophecy was very succesful though. As well is had only a fraction of WCIV's budget. THey figured out how to do the FMV cheaper. Despite the apparent silence, EA has been considering WC games ever since secret ops. All of which didnt materialize for various reasons, none of which were faith in the the marketability of the franchise.

The reason might be, that a game like WC is too complex for people who play very less, but too "dumb" for players knowing games like "Freelancer", with all the freedom the player has in it.

Ehh.... What? Freelancer is a privateer clone. It plays the way it does because Digital anvil figured people were too dumb to figure out a joystick and/or wouldnt want to purchase one just to play it. Not only that, casual gamers *complain* about remembering that A is for autopilot. How many casual player do you think understand the strategy of using decoys/ mines and adjusting power consuption? Anc considering that most likely the next game might be a privateer game your argument falls on its face.

Wing Commander, as we know and love it, is, regarding the gameplay, far too simple for the gamers of today.
It's nothing different then moving a joystick from one point to another and killing some enemies.

How is this any different than the Gazillions of First-person-shooters on the market?

WC-Fans would feel the need to have that videos, that made all WCs since "Heart of the Tiger" cost a few million Dollars.
So a new WC would cost at least 5 Million Dollars I think...

What AAA title today *doesn't* cost 5 million? Seriously, would WC fans be happy with anything less than that kind of treatment? And about the videos, EA hasnt exactly shied away from some FMV as seen in black and nfs:most wanted.

There may be all kinds of speculative reasons why EA hasnt and might not in the next year or so make a new WC game yet none of the reasons you've stated add up.
 
Originally posted by Mr.Evil:
WC-Fans would feel the need to have that videos, that made all WCs since "Heart of the Tiger" cost a few million Dollars.
So a new WC would cost at least 5 Million Dollars I think and this is, in fact, a very risky project.

I wouldn't say that Wing Commander fans would feel a need to have videos. When Privateer 3 was in development, I believe it wasn't going to have FMV. And I think most of us would have been happy to have it anyway.

Seriously... I wouldn't mind dumping FMV. The current trend seems to be away from it. And, no matter how much I liked Wing Commander III (and Mark Hamill), I always sort of missed the "blue haired" Christopher Blair from the first two games. :)
 
CataclysmX said:
The most disappointing moment other than Wing Commander being cancelled, was that Privateer Online was never released, that is the only feasible game I can see EA wanting to release.

They see Eve Online as a success, there is no real competitor, Privateer Online would decimate Eve Onlines population.
From what I understand EVE isn't really the same kind of game anyway. THough it is true that one of the things companies worry about is market saturation. THe *main* reason Privateer Online was cancelled was a game called Earth & beyond. E&B was farther along in development than Priv. Online was. EA realized that they had two space MMO's that they felt they would end up competing for market share with themselves. (EA owned both games) so they went with Earth&Beyond. It wasn't that they thought privateer wouldn't be successful. It's that they had an already just about finished E&B where as Privateer online was a lot earlier in development so canceling PO amounted to potentially throwing away less money than scrapping an almost finished game. (though in retrospect its easy to see that Privateer Online would have easily surpased E&B in sales and subscriptions).
 
Self-competition is a major factor in the cancellation of Ultima Online 2 as well.

EA is *huge*, don't forget that.
 
I'm a little confused, cause here you say how complex of a game Wing Commander is.

Mr.Evil said:
The reason might be, that a game like WC is too complex for people who play very less, but too "dumb" for players knowing games like "Freelancer", with all the freedom the player has in it.

But then here you say that for gamers today, WC would be far too simple?

Mr.Evil said:
Wing Commander, as we know and love it, is, regarding the gameplay, far too simple for the gamers of today.
It's nothing different then moving a joystick from one point to another and killing some enemies.

I think as far as gameplay is concerned, Wing Commander is just as sophisticated as most games I see today. Besides the interaction you do on base, there are also tons of different options for in the cockpit and several tactics for fighting and completing missions.

And when I think of the actual story to Wing Commander and its characters, I think it is very in-depth. Sure, a full-blown war between two races can be pretty straightforward, but the writers always included interesting plot twists and devices. And the relationships between, say, Tolywn, Blair, Paladin, and Angel, were interesting to see evolve and for a computer game to capture that kind of in-depth storytelling, it's a big reason why I can play those games over and over.
 
Mr.Evil said:
I don't really think they will ever produce a new WC.
Prophecy was 1997 and not as successfull as the ones before and EA might think that is is too risky to develope a new one.

People bring this up a lot, and it just isn't a valid concern. It's not like Prophecy only did average and didn't compel Origin to make a sequel. Origin *already did* make a sequel, and it was a full length game that they even released for free because they wanted to keep fans excited as they worked on the next Wing Commander project. Companies don't spend a year making a free game to reward all the people who didn't buy the last chapter in the series. People also forget that most recent Wing Commander game we got was a very well done handheld port of the very successful Wing Commander Prophecy. The reasons for there being no new WC game in the 1999-2003 timeframe are very complex. They have nothing to do with any perceived lack of success on behalf of the franchise, and EA continues to be very committed to finding a way to bring the series back effectively.

CataclysmX said:
The most disappointing moment other than Wing Commander being cancelled, was that Privateer Online was never released, that is the only feasible game I can see EA wanting to release.

Don't let past genres and concepts limit your thinking here. There are lots of ways that EA could creatively bring back the series. A few years ago I would have thought it was too late for them to ever rerelease classic WC games of the 1990s, but now we have compilations such as C&C First Decade and EA will soon be releasing Wing Commander Privateer again via GameTap. And we will surely have brand new games sooner or later.

RATM said:
a new wing commander would have a much lower budget, i would imagine, than the previous ones. It would be ludicrus to spend countless millions from an EA point of view. Remember, the company doesn`t care about closure for a series, a company cares only about its shareholders. In the end, it`s to the shareholders that the company must respond to, not the fans of a series.

Only on a very high level. Everyone involved in efforts to bring the series back over the last half dozen years have been very concerned with doing the series justice and delivering something the fans want.
 
Im in complete agreement.
Good to hear from someone with a sensible and realistic point of view for a change.

What a brat. You were proved wrong *specifically* about this subject in another thread, so you crawled away with your tail between your legs here to bring it up again. I certainly hope you end up banned -- we don't need plain old defeatism here and we certainly don't need I'm-more-special-than-the-cause defeatism.

Now hear this, those that find such things adorable: this boy is a troll, of the *most* pure variety. He is here to tell you that your hopes and your dreams are wrong. He is here to make you unhappy because he will find pleasure in doing so. The basis upon which he says these things is *simply* that he doesn't like the idea that you are excited, that you are content, that you are a good and friendly and intelligent community. He has no inside information, he has no secret contacts, he has no clue - his "realism" is whatever he can say that most quickly hurts you, simply the fact that he does not like your happiness.

Can I, then, promise you that a new Wing Commander is being developed? That one will be developed in one year? In two years? In ten years? I certainly can not. I would have no ground to stand on. I have never - and will never - make empty promises to string you along. We alone are Wing Commander... for now.

What can I say, then, if I can't lie to you? I can say that I have been personally involved in four attempts in as many years to develop a new game. One of these, Wing Commander Prophecy for the GBA, was published. Another was a television series, for which the staff here helped develop the pitch. The other two were attempts by Electronic Arts proper to revitalize the series. EA knows Wing Commander has always meant profit - they want as much as anyone to have another succesful series, and they have made many attempts since 1998 to figure out exactly how to bring it back.

Neither of these projects went beyond the early design work, but a considerable amount of effort and money went into what was done. The attempt is being made -- not just once, but over and over. It will eventually stick. EA will find a middle ground upon which they can sell a new game. They have many questions which stifle development... does it need to have FMV? Games don't, these days - will it still sell? Does it need to have Wing Commander's Gene Roddenberry, Chris Roberts? Can a space sim be risked at all? Freespace 2 and Tachyon suggest they can not. How do we get over the no-joystick barrier? Is there a buying public that is still interested in space games? Is there a group of people nostalgic for the old games today? These things *will* be figured out. If not by Electronic Arts, if you must all rely on silly post-modern pop cynicism about evil corporations, then by the next startup that builds a million-selling space game... and w hen that happens, you know Wing Commander will be back in minutes.

That's all very sexy, my secret life, my inner knowledge of secret projects. It means *nothing*. As I said, you are Wing Commander - you people developing fan projects, making fan models, drawing spaceships, finding old magazine articles for the archives, helping people play the original games on new computers, designing web sites, writing fan fiction, dressing up at conventions, introducing your own children to the series... just like Star Trek fans in the 1970s made it possible for the show to return, you are making it possible for Wing Commander to live on. You're the reason at least four professional productions have contacted me -- not the other way around. Do not quantify your success by knowing what Electronic Arts is thinking - certainly do not quantify it by believing what some cynical child thinks-without-fact.

So, in short, dear internet jerk, we don't want your kind here.
 
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