The Lonesome Death of FreeLancer 2 (December 5, 2007)

I haven't really sat down and given it much thought yet, but what is so unappealing about space combat sims nowadays? People seem to like spaceships in any other context.

Or is it simply the music industry syndrome permeating the gaming industry; FPS' sell, so produce as many clones as possible.

Did people forget how much the WC series grossed? Geez. And that was without clones.
 
That's not completely right, there were clones.

And to your first question: I don't know. The whole simulator genre went down. Not just space simulations. (Ok, you can't call WC a simulation but you know what I mean....)
 
I know there were clones, but I was speaking comparatively; consider the amount of FPS titles today to the amount of games that attempted to mimmick WC back then. You had your FreeSpace and your Terminal Velocity, but nothing really substantial during the WC1-4 era.
 
Well, one problem was just that these things are cylical - space games ran their course and shooters took over. This, too, shall pass... but there were other problems regarding space sims in general and Wing Commander in particular.

The big one (in general) was joysticks.

In the early-to-mid-1990s, joysticks were common - almost standard issue (largely because of Wing Commander.) When you bought a family computer from Dell or Gateway or IBM, it came with a cheap joystick (and, more often than not, a copy of Wing Commander 2 or Privateer!) What this meant was that there was a *huge* install base for space sims... everybody who had a joystick could theoretically buy a space game and enjoy it.

Today that isn't the case. First person games took over, companies saved money by not including 'sticks... and they became a hobbyists tool. If you're one of the 11 people who buys MS Flight Sim 9.5 you can get buy an exact replica of a 737's flight yolk for $500... otherwise, they just don't exist. So when a team sits down to pitch their space game to corporate they have to explain how it will sell to 5% of the market instead of 80% and why they shouldn't be spending their time on more surefire products.

(This is, incidentally, where FreeLancers control scheme came from - Microsoft *knew* they couldn't sell the game... at the time, the most expensive ever developed... if people believed it needed a joystick. So they removed any joystick play, made a big fuss about it being mouse-only and fanned the flames to make sure potential buyers all realized that you controlled it with what God gave your computer.)

Now, add to that the general death of PC development, which has happened only recently - what was the last original AAA title you played for the PC? *Everything* that gets development money is for a console first, a handheld second, a cell phone third and a PC fourth (and maybe some kind of arcade cabinet or slot machine before that, even.) You just can't make money putting ten million dollars into developing a new PC game - except for the occasional fluke like The Sims or World of Warcraft. PC development has become very risky.

Wing Commander suffers from two other 'marketing' flaws, specific to its nature:


* Full Motion Video!... was a crazy fad that developers look back on and wince at. It was expensive, awkward and had limited expandability. Wing Commander IV cost a mint, never made it back and still looks awfully dated today. There's a perception that Wing Commander *needs* the actors in order to function... and that no one should ever put that kind of money into filming an interactive movie ever again.

* It lost its creator. There's a big perception at EA (or there was, years ago) that Wing Commander wouldn't sell without A CHRIS ROBERTS GAME on the cover. It's not true, but it's what the suits thought for years... I, personally, would be happy with A SEAN PENNEY GAME.
 
I would be happy with just WING COMMANDER on the cover (with the little star fighters sticking out of both sides) - just make so it will honor it's legacy, that's all I'll ask.
 
(This is, incidentally, where FreeLancers control scheme came from - Microsoft *knew* they couldn't sell the game... at the time, the most expensive ever developed... if people believed it needed a joystick. So they removed any joystick play, made a big fuss about it being mouse-only and fanned the flames to make sure potential buyers all realized that you controlled it with what God gave your computer.)

Now this is something I could never understand about Freelancer. Why did the have to not include a joystick option at all. I understand them wanting to push the "no need for a joystick" aspect, but would it really have been so bad to include a joystick option? Maybe they wouldn't have mentioned it on the box cover, but they could have it on the option menu in the game. That way everybody's happy.

Now, add to that the general death of PC development, which has happened only recently - what was the last original AAA title you played for the PC? *Everything* that gets development money is for a console first, a handheld second, a cell phone third and a PC fourth (and maybe some kind of arcade cabinet or slot machine before that, even.) You just can't make money putting ten million dollars into developing a new PC game - except for the occasional fluke like The Sims or World of Warcraft. PC development has become very risky.

Well, its not entirely dead: Command and Conquer 3 came out recently, and an expansion pack is on the way. And don't forget about Starcraft II, that's going to be big. There's the Half-Life series (1, 2, ep.1, ep.2, etc.) and its plethora of mods (ex. Counter-Strike, Team Fortress, etc). And of course MMORPGs, such as Everquest, Ultima, and World of Warcraft.

Wing Commander suffers from two other 'marketing' flaws, specific to its nature:


* Full Motion Video!... was a crazy fad that developers look back on and wince at. It was expensive, awkward and had limited expandability. Wing Commander IV cost a mint, never made it back and still looks awfully dated today. There's a perception that Wing Commander *needs* the actors in order to function... and that no one should ever put that kind of money into filming an interactive movie ever again.

* It lost its creator. There's a big perception at EA (or there was, years ago) that Wing Commander wouldn't sell without A CHRIS ROBERTS GAME on the cover. It's not true, but it's what the suits thought for years... I, personally, would be happy with A SEAN PENNEY GAME.

Many games have FMV's, they don't have to have live actors and full sets. Hell, just look at Privateer's intro, even today that's still a sweet FMV. Live actors and real sets are nice, but I wouldn't mind if they switched to CG with voice acting. The story can be done just as well, for example: Freelancer, and any of the Legacy of Kain games (excluding Blood Omen 2...it had such a weak story).

I can't say I would mind playing "A Sean Penny Game," but when it comes to Wing Commander I think it would just feel different. Not bad, but I don't think I would emblazon someone else's name on a WC box; it would be unnecessarily pretentious. I guess EA could always offer Chris Roberts and the rest of the WC guys a studio of their own...or maybe I should wake up now.
 
Now this is something I could never understand about Freelancer. Why did the have to not include a joystick option at all. I understand them wanting to push the "no need for a joystick" aspect, but would it really have been so bad to include a joystick option? Maybe they wouldn't have mentioned it on the box cover, but they could have it on the option menu in the game. That way everybody's happy.

It was part of the marketing - by sparking outrage in the press and among the few 'old school' gamers (the 5% who still owned joysticks), they hoped to spread word to everyone else that it was a mouse game.

Well, its not entirely dead: Command and Conquer 3 came out recently, and an expansion pack is on the way. And don't forget about Starcraft II, that's going to be big. There's the Half-Life series (1, 2, ep.1, ep.2, etc.) and its plethora of mods (ex. Counter-Strike, Team Fortress, etc). And of course MMORPG, such as Everquest, Ultima, and World of Warcraft.

Two of the three games you listed are now console titles, though... and the third is a very unusual special case.

Command and Conquer 3 would not have been developed as a PC-only title... it was an Xbox 360 release from Day One. What's more, it wouldn't have been developed if sales of the Middle Earth RTS game for the 360 hadn't been reasonable in the first place.

Orange Box revitalized Half Life's bottom line by proving this exact point... that console sales can make a game. It's going to be interesting to see what Valve does for Episode 3, now that they know where to make a lot more money.

Starcraft II will be big, but only because it's a crazy special case - every single person in Korea will buy it and Blizzard knows this going in. One thing Blizzard *can't* rely on is SC2 selling as well as SC1 in the United States, since the market is so different.

I'm going to bet that MMP games on the console are the next big frontier. They're in something of a decline in the PC (natural, since everybody put a hojillion dollars into MMP development for a market that couldn't sustain it)... but there's absolutely nothing stopping the next UO or WoW from being for Xbox Live.

Many games have FMV's, they don't have to have live actors and full sets. Hell, just look at Privateer's intro, even today that's still a sweet FMV. Live actors and real sets are nice, but I wouldn't mind if they switched to CG with voice acting. The story can be done just as well, for example: Freelancer, and any of the Legacy of Kain games (excluding Blood Omen 2...it had such a weak story).

Oh, no - *I* wouldn't mind, you wouldn't mind, the Wing Commander community wouldn't mind... but EA is under the impression that the general public assosciates Wing Commander with Mark Hamill's face. Ten bajillion Arena articles about "WHERE'S MARK HAMILL?" certainly didn't help...
 
Even if they didn't want to pour money into another Wing Commander Proper game, I could have settled for an RTS, ala Homeworld. There were many other genres and directions to take the canon that were never explored.
 
Well, maybe this will be an unexpected benefit from having Arena (other than the obvious and numerous benefits of bringing new life to the series.) It proves the possibility of utilizing other game genres while keeping them set in the Wing Commander universe. I think it would be much easier to present the business case of one of these versions of WC (as most would be viable on a console as well) when compared to the traditional format.

Might be interesting also...who wouldn't want to try their hand at commanding a Confed or Kilrathi fleet?
 
Interestingly, not only does Arena open up the possibilty to an expanded level of play, but it actually proves that a tactical 2d fleet command game would work brilliantly. it handles complicated maneuvers with independant fighters beautifully and proves that capship to capship slugfests can be every bit as awesome in reality as they already were in my mind's eye.
 
It was part of the marketing - by sparking outrage in the press and among the few 'old school' gamers (the 5% who still owned joysticks), they hoped to spread word to everyone else that it was a mouse game.

Markiting though annoyance....sounds like microsoft.

Two of the three games you listed are now console titles, though... and the third is a very unusual special case.

Command and Conquer 3 would not have been developed as a PC-only title... it was an Xbox 360 release from Day One. What's more, it wouldn't have been developed if sales of the Middle Earth RTS game for the 360 hadn't been reasonable in the first place.

Orange Box revitalized Half Life's bottom line by proving this exact point... that console sales can make a game. It's going to be interesting to see what Valve does for Episode 3, now that they know where to make a lot more money.

Starcraft II will be big, but only because it's a crazy special case - every single person in Korea will buy it and Blizzard knows this going in. One thing Blizzard *can't* rely on is SC2 selling as well as SC1 in the United States, since the market is so different.

I'm going to bet that MMP games on the console are the next big frontier. They're in something of a decline in the PC (natural, since everybody put a hojillion dollars into MMP development for a market that couldn't sustain it)... but there's absolutely nothing stopping the next UO or WoW from being for Xbox Live.

I totally forgot that CC3 and HL had gone to console....I fail. Although I don't know about how successful a MMO can be on a console (at least currently). Without a keyboard it would mean dumbing down most functions (hell even with a keyboard its hard to map all the things you want), but who knows...maybe someone will make a really fun and simple causal MMO for consoles, or maybe consoles will start shipping with keyboards.


Oh, no - *I* wouldn't mind, you wouldn't mind, the Wing Commander community wouldn't mind... but EA is under the impression that the general public assosciates Wing Commander with Mark Hamill's face. Ten bajillion Arena articles about "WHERE'S MARK HAMILL?" certainly didn't help...

Wow, really? Mark Hamil was only in 3 WC games: 3, 4 and Prophecy [really more of a guest star in Prophecy though], and he did the voice for Blair in the Academy TV show. There have been 10 WC games total (counting P2, and Arena), a few novels, and a major motion picture: Most of which do not feature Mark Hamil. I can't believe its such a big deal for people.

On a related note: Were there any "WHERE'S TMO WLISON?!!111" articles?
 
Oh, no - *I* wouldn't mind, you wouldn't mind, the Wing Commander community wouldn't mind... but EA is under the impression that the general public assosciates Wing Commander with Mark Hamill's face. Ten bajillion Arena articles about "WHERE'S MARK HAMILL?" certainly didn't help...

What they need is to just start a new WC series by having some reasonably famous actors in it again and people will soon forget they wished Hamil was in it. I wouldnt mind either if they had CGI with voice acting, its getting really good nowadays and also allows for more interactivity.

Although the acting choices were a little strange sometimes having such low budget bad acting stars along with Malcolm McDowell and John Rhys Davis, which admittedly do still do low budget films but they can at least act well. But I digress...
 
I was thinking about it. I don't really have time to commit to a Play by post game, but I downloaded the rules and one day I'll talk my game group into playing it.
 
Call me crazy, but I'd like to see a Wing Commander universe first person shooter. If that's where the market is, why not go there. Someone needs to flesh out the Marines!
 
FL is a sad story - I really feel that if it had been an Xbox title to start out with we'd be drinking FreeLancer-branded disgusting-flavored Mountain Dew today.
Liberty Ale, perhaps?

I also managed to get my ship stuck inside a space station somehow while everyone else was fighting it out in multiplayer.
Did that myself in the main game once, when I wandered into a hangar when someone else was landing... had to wait until another NPC wanted to land/leave at that hangar. Oops.
 
Back
Top