Ripped off: nah
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Ridgerunner
Vice Admiral
Easy, guys. With any luck it's only a temp ban. We can still e-mail Wendy.
And why does everyone keep calling her "he"? She is an actual female. Or a really sick guy.
Oh, no! What if LOAF got assimilated? And the LOAFBORG is calling everyone "he"? How will we ever know?
And why does everyone keep calling her "he"? She is an actual female. Or a really sick guy.
Oh, no! What if LOAF got assimilated? And the LOAFBORG is calling everyone "he"? How will we ever know?
Cyberion
Master of Orion
Guys i think you all have to calm down and continue with the game. Nothing terrible happened if you didn't win the Fan Project of the Year.
Lynx is right PR policy is very esential if you want to attract some attention. Make screenies, make wallpapers, make anything... that way there will be more people visiting you and all that stuff.
As for me, i do not aim for the Site of the year, although my webby participated in it. I took 5th place and i feel fine. So what? 5th or 1st? it doesn't make you the best, the way you do the stuff shows your abilities, but if you won or not in the fan project of the year, i guess, has nothing to do with the quality of the work. Was WC1 alot advertized? was Crusader alot advertised? was Strike Commander advertised alot? No... but those games are unique cause they were made for playing, for gamers.
Just go on with the game and do your best, people we love it or not, this depends on you and only on you...
P.S. about Wendy, well i guess banning at once was a little bit hursh to her, maybe some punishment like the special avatar, "i'm rolling" or somethig, but banning at once is a hursh way. If she got warning and continued that would be fine, but without warning its alittle bit too much. I hope you understand what i mean guys and you LOAF, i have strong believe in you and i'm sure you are a kind person, so maybe we shall forgive Wendy and as a punishment make a temporare avatar for her. And in the future for others, like the 1st warning, after the 2nd is ban or something like that.
P.S.S. wow just reread the PS and understood that it is very big for PS lol.
Cyb
Lynx is right PR policy is very esential if you want to attract some attention. Make screenies, make wallpapers, make anything... that way there will be more people visiting you and all that stuff.
As for me, i do not aim for the Site of the year, although my webby participated in it. I took 5th place and i feel fine. So what? 5th or 1st? it doesn't make you the best, the way you do the stuff shows your abilities, but if you won or not in the fan project of the year, i guess, has nothing to do with the quality of the work. Was WC1 alot advertized? was Crusader alot advertised? was Strike Commander advertised alot? No... but those games are unique cause they were made for playing, for gamers.
Just go on with the game and do your best, people we love it or not, this depends on you and only on you...
P.S. about Wendy, well i guess banning at once was a little bit hursh to her, maybe some punishment like the special avatar, "i'm rolling" or somethig, but banning at once is a hursh way. If she got warning and continued that would be fine, but without warning its alittle bit too much. I hope you understand what i mean guys and you LOAF, i have strong believe in you and i'm sure you are a kind person, so maybe we shall forgive Wendy and as a punishment make a temporare avatar for her. And in the future for others, like the 1st warning, after the 2nd is ban or something like that.
P.S.S. wow just reread the PS and understood that it is very big for PS lol.
Cyb
Maj.Striker
Swabbie
Banned
Interesting thread, crazy, but interesting.
Loaf, I'm sure you just temporarily banned Wendy because you're a pretty understanding fella and I know you don't just ban people without good provocation but typically you give them at least one warning first... Where was the warning?
Anyway, in regards to the actual meat of this thread, you got to understand that no one is saying that any of these three projects are not fantastic undertakings. However there are a few important things to note:
1. Standoff has been a long running project that has enjoyed a good bit of publicity here at CIC. Saga is also in the same situation however Saga has not been released as of yet. The Privateer remake, unfortunately, kinda slipped by without much of the WC's community noticing. Now, you have to admit its certainly gained some notority in the recent month(s) but the truth remains that it just didn't have quite the early following as Standoff and Saga did from the beginning.
2. Standoff released a pretty much finished version of their prologue, no betas no continual testing and error checking, they delivered a project that was essentially ready to roll. The privateer remake, although, certainly fantastic and very much playable seems to be going through several beta builds and error correction. I commend you for sharing your project with the community early and making good use of the users for valuable bug decoding but the truth be told you haven't released a final product yet.
3. Finally, (this is a bit of a more personal note than anything else) my pc is sadly lacking in its abilities (800mhz, 384mb SDRAM, crappy vid card etc) so I was unable to truly test out the Privateer Remake. Standoff got my nod because I was able to play it on my machine, I don't know how much of an issue this was for other users.
Loaf, I'm sure you just temporarily banned Wendy because you're a pretty understanding fella and I know you don't just ban people without good provocation but typically you give them at least one warning first... Where was the warning?
Anyway, in regards to the actual meat of this thread, you got to understand that no one is saying that any of these three projects are not fantastic undertakings. However there are a few important things to note:
1. Standoff has been a long running project that has enjoyed a good bit of publicity here at CIC. Saga is also in the same situation however Saga has not been released as of yet. The Privateer remake, unfortunately, kinda slipped by without much of the WC's community noticing. Now, you have to admit its certainly gained some notority in the recent month(s) but the truth remains that it just didn't have quite the early following as Standoff and Saga did from the beginning.
2. Standoff released a pretty much finished version of their prologue, no betas no continual testing and error checking, they delivered a project that was essentially ready to roll. The privateer remake, although, certainly fantastic and very much playable seems to be going through several beta builds and error correction. I commend you for sharing your project with the community early and making good use of the users for valuable bug decoding but the truth be told you haven't released a final product yet.
3. Finally, (this is a bit of a more personal note than anything else) my pc is sadly lacking in its abilities (800mhz, 384mb SDRAM, crappy vid card etc) so I was unable to truly test out the Privateer Remake. Standoff got my nod because I was able to play it on my machine, I don't know how much of an issue this was for other users.
Nomad Terror said:
I completely agree with that statement. While I do like Privateer Remake, it is simply a REMAKE. The Standoff and Saga teams are adding completely new chapters to the WC community. As fun as PR is, I dont think it can compare to the thought of making a bombing run on a Hakaga at the Battle of Earth in Standoff, or huge cap-ships duking it out in Saga. And of course there is the obvious point that people just didnt vote for PR as much as Standoff or Saga.
Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
I don't think I've expressed any personal opinion about the mod at all -- I've simply explained why people voted the way they did. (I didn't even cast a vote myself.)
My only vicious complaint about the Privateer mod applies equally to Standoff and Saga -- I'm against changes made to the original, especially under the guise of claiming to improve it. It's just especially prevalent when the attempt is to emulate the original... but I think it's equally bad that the torpedo loads are increased in Standoff and that the conning towers on the Concordia-class was switched around in Saga.
Overall, though, it's a great project. It does great things for the community. I certainly don't hate it.
All bans are temp bans -- this one is set to three days.
If I were you, I wouldn't especially want someone who's too stupid to understand that I wasn't responsible for their banning testing my software. A simple apology on her part would be enough to be unbanned immediately -- righteous indignation doesn't win any points in my book.
MamiyaOtaru
Spaceman
Not sure why that thread was locked from my scanning of it, but it was before I could reply. I could open it, but meh. I'll lock this one in a hurry too though if things get out of hand.
I'm not surprised at all by the results. Our project has attracted some new members to the boards, and our section of the board usually has a large number of guests browsing it. At the same time, we really haven't gotten as much attention from the long time CIC goers. This could be because we had too many ships available for purchase early on, and weren't all that happy about receiving criticism for it. It could be because they all already have the original and don't feel they need to play a remake. It could simply not be up to their standards
Whatever the reason, long time members (who seem to prefer the other projects) were more likely to vote in a CIC contest.
Less attention from regulars = less votes. We are also new and haven't had time to attract a following. And while it's possible to come up with rationalizations like that, it could simply mean people don't like it
Since my primary target audience is myself, it doesn't bother me.
There could be some truth for that. We made no PR push. We also aren't really complaining about the result, though some users might: a distinction that sometimes gets lost.
There are a few points I would like to address from that thread though.
).
Vegastrike's supposed overcomplexity was also addressed. Removing options is easy. Removing features is easy. The fact that they are there, and more can be added if necessary is what is important. A plethora of config options is what one gets for ensuring it works on a range of hardware and operating systems. And one can always just accept the defaults
) The Vision engine has a limited life, one that is tied to a specific architecture and continuing Microsoft efforts at maintaining backwards compatibility. How will work done on the Vision engine benefit Wing Commander in the future?
I really don't want to sound like I am saying anything bad about Standoff or Saga; in the present their work benefits WC greatly in that it provides us with excellent, playable games (unless you run linux ). As far as creating new games though, work on the Vision engine is a dead end. There is also no gaurantee the Freespace engine will work on whatever platform people are using in the future. There will likely be some other closed source engine that can be used, but the strength of Vegastrike compared to that one knows one can stick with the same engine, that one doesn't have to learn a new engine and new tricks for it because the old one has passed its EOL.
I don't think we can really come to a definitive conclusion on that topic though, see the years of discussions and flames on OSnews for an example of that LOL
I'm not surprised at all by the results. Our project has attracted some new members to the boards, and our section of the board usually has a large number of guests browsing it. At the same time, we really haven't gotten as much attention from the long time CIC goers. This could be because we had too many ships available for purchase early on, and weren't all that happy about receiving criticism for it. It could be because they all already have the original and don't feel they need to play a remake. It could simply not be up to their standards
Whatever the reason, long time members (who seem to prefer the other projects) were more likely to vote in a CIC contest. Less attention from regulars = less votes. We are also new and haven't had time to attract a following. And while it's possible to come up with rationalizations like that, it could simply mean people don't like it
Since my primary target audience is myself, it doesn't bother me.Lynx said:
There could be some truth for that. We made no PR push. We also aren't really complaining about the result, though some users might: a distinction that sometimes gets lost.There are a few points I would like to address from that thread though.
Sure Vegastrike is easier to mod. However in using that to say that creating the Remake was therefore easier, you are discounting actually creating the engine. Vegastrike didn't just appear, ready for people to mod. Hellcat has been working on it for years, and I have tinkered with it for years, ensuring that it contained features needed for the Wing Commander project we knew would someday be started.nomad terror said:
Welcome to my life. If things aren't exactly the same, a veritable shitstorm ensues. If I was the paranoid type, I would read something into the many comments made by members of the other team about how we should remain more true to the original. I could decide they were trying to make sure we had nothing new to bring to the table to keep interest low. In reality, they simply wanted it to remain true, which I can understand. Of course, that in turn brings complaints, see quote. (The natural, and correct, counter argument of course is that we should be making something completely original, but that wouldn't be what my target audience wanted
).Vegastrike's supposed overcomplexity was also addressed. Removing options is easy. Removing features is easy. The fact that they are there, and more can be added if necessary is what is important. A plethora of config options is what one gets for ensuring it works on a range of hardware and operating systems. And one can always just accept the defaults
I really find that to be somewhat short sighted, which is surprising coming from someone who has stayed true to WC for so long. Standoff has done great work, and it is amazing what they have done with the Vision engine. But why? The effort spent wrestling with an unfriendly engine could have been spent elsewhere, and IIRC they have said that is what will happen with their next project. (I'll try to dig up the quote if someone calls me on itLOAF said:
) The Vision engine has a limited life, one that is tied to a specific architecture and continuing Microsoft efforts at maintaining backwards compatibility. How will work done on the Vision engine benefit Wing Commander in the future? I really don't want to sound like I am saying anything bad about Standoff or Saga; in the present their work benefits WC greatly in that it provides us with excellent, playable games (unless you run linux
). As far as creating new games though, work on the Vision engine is a dead end. There is also no gaurantee the Freespace engine will work on whatever platform people are using in the future. There will likely be some other closed source engine that can be used, but the strength of Vegastrike compared to that one knows one can stick with the same engine, that one doesn't have to learn a new engine and new tricks for it because the old one has passed its EOL. I don't think we can really come to a definitive conclusion on that topic though, see the years of discussions and flames on OSnews for an example of that LOL
the reason it was locked is that a user got banned...and I didn't want any more to fall into that trap.
I'd rather it not be discussed than having nice people here banned...even if it's temporary--every day of testing counts...and it can turn friendly people off
Same goes for this thread.
Fans: be careful what you post here... lets keep this friendly and concentrate on our remake
I'd rather it not be discussed than having nice people here banned...even if it's temporary--every day of testing counts...and it can turn friendly people off
Same goes for this thread.
Fans: be careful what you post here... lets keep this friendly
and concentrate on our remakeMamiyaOtaru
Spaceman
Makes sense. I'll close it up then. If I get around to it, I'll just merge it into the other thread.
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