Prophecy Missions

[Wedge009]

Q: How do I get to the Hellespont/Alcor System missions?
A: Fail the third G'wriss System mission, but be sure to succeed in the final (usually second) Hhrass System mission.

I was browsing thru some pages and found this in the Prophecy FAQ. I recognise these systems from WC3/4. What is it talking about?

 

[Quarto]

It's the losing path branch-off in WCP. Naturally, WCP didn't have much of a losing path (probably because of all those script cuts), but nonetheless, there is the Hellespont/Alcor bit. Play WCP, do what they say, and you'll find yourself in Hellespont (instead of T'lan Meth? Can't remember).

 

[Wedge009]

Is that the name of the system? I assume the missions are different from the ones in WC3/4, of course. But it seems strange to have these systems when the majority of the systems in the game have Kilrathi names. I made a mission tree for myself so I could work out which branch from which - the mission history isn't much help there - and I haven't managed to find it yet. My second H'hrass mission (313.2) leads back to the main branch H'hrass 314.1. Oh well, I'll have a go at it later.

 

[Quarto]

Yes, those are system names. And yes, those are the same systems which previously appeared in WC3. And of course they're not the same missions as in WC3.
These systems happen to be right on the edge of Kilrathi space. Well, Alcor (Confed system in Vega Sector) is a bit deeper into Confed space, but Hellespont (which is a BW system also in Vega Sector) is right on the edge, with two jump points leading into the Kilrah Sector.

 

[Bandit LOAF]

Most of Prophecy takes place in Kilrathi space -- these two 'losing' missions are meant to show that the Nephilim are forcing us back to our own territory.

 

[Dralthi5]

And then a big-ass bug ship comes traipsing into the Sol System.

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If I'm locked on, there's no such thing as evasive action!

 

[Anagram]

You know, I really wish that those two "we're overwhelmed" cutscenes weren't in the game... In BOTH of those missions, I made sure that NOTHING even touched
the ship, but ...

Damned one-track story.

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Maestro: "Lighten up Spyder! We're not gonna die! We're gonna WIN!!"

Zero: "Hey, Maestro... Uhh... If you DIE, can we pick through your stuff before we head back to Sol?"

Maestro: "You can burn in Hell."

 

[Saturnyne]

What do you expect from a bunch of money grubbing slimeballs who took a great story with potential to go down in history and mangled it to be nothing more than a 3D accelerated farce?

WCP is good graphically and all, but Origin did a really crappy job overall of Prophecy, an even worse job on Secret Ops, and I'm somehow glad they won't finish off the Prophecy "trilogy", as the story would probably get thinner still, leaving the consumer with the worst ending in the history of mankind. Of course, if the money grubbing slimeballs would take their dormant WC franchise and hand it over to DA, then the world would make a little more sense again.

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[Mad Hatter]

WCP is good graphically and all, but Origin did a really crappy job overall of Prophecy, an even worse job on Secret Ops.

What do you expect from a game released as an experiment over the net? Secret Ops is just an addon for WCP. It`s not a stand alone game. As for Prophecy, there is just so much you can do with a cut budget while EA is itching you to finish the game already.

 

[Wedge009]

Hey, relax, I think we've had this debate several times over. Anyway, I managed to find those missions - I actually felt some urgency in this track cos of the 'being pushed into Confed territory' thing. Even though all of SO is in the heart of Confed, somehow it didn't seem quite as helpless as it did in Hellespont/Alcor.

And that comm officer (does he have a name) had quite a cheesy line: "I love it when you work as a team!"

I had a look at the Prophecy map, and from Alcor, you can hop to Vega, then Proxima, Sirius, and Sol. That's very few jumps between Sol and Kilrah. Makes me wonder how Confed managed to keep that main route secure, while patrolling other areas such as Gemini and Enigma sectors at the same time.

 

[Quarto]

I had a look at the Prophecy map, and from Alcor, you can hop to Vega, then Proxima, Sirius, and Sol. That's very few jumps between Sol and Kilrah. Makes me wonder how Confed managed to keep that main route secure, while patrolling other areas such as Gemini and Enigma sectors at the same time.

My theory - and note that that's all it is - is that during most of the war Vega sector was reasonably secure. That was where the main thrust of the first Kilrathi assaults was aimed at, and it stands to reason that this was the area with the largest concentration of Confed vessels as well. Certainly, the first thing Blair did was help drive the Kilrathi out of the sector

.
The Enigma and Deneb sectors were of course way of outflanking the Confederation - especially Enigma, where the Enigma System (in which the Kilrathi had established at least a foothold) offered two jump routes that could get them to Sol in just four jumps. Obviously, however, the Enigma offensive faltered and died after the disaster of '67, when K'tithrak Mang was lost and the K'arakh, Shariha and N'tanya colonies defected. From this point on, Confed seemed to be on the offensive in this sector, and probably remained so for the rest of the war. The Kilrathi did try to regain the initiative with their surprise offensive in Deneb, where they reached the Confed Sector HQ in just six hours after launching the attack. This gave them access to several jump routes leading into "northern" Enigma (Grills quadrant) and "southern" Vega (Day quadrant). The Confederation obviously managed to re-take the Goddard system soon afterwards, but probably not much else. Either way, I don't think the Kilrathi were ever driven out of Deneb altogether - the Concordia went down fighting off an attack which must have come from the Deneb sector, because the only other route into Vespus led through the "southern" Enigma sector (Isaac quadrant), where we've already seen the Kilrathi soundly beaten

. However, later in '69 the Confederation was able to re-take the jump route into Vespus (in other words, the Cardell and Morpheus systems, mentioned in the WC3 intro). That, however, is as far as they got, and Blair spent the first half of WC3 defending Orsini (in Deneb - it is possible that this system was also just re-taken, but it may be that it had never been lost in the first place) and the Day quadrant of Vega sector.
Mind you, by this time the war (especially after a certain battle in Sol System

) was definitely going to hell, and the main jump route in Vega wasn't really secure any more - the Kilrathi had firmly established themselves as far as Alcor, and were probably trying to capture Vega system (if they hadn't done so already). But at this point, our hero dropped the bomb on Kilrah and we lived happily ever after.

So, I guess that answers your question about how the main jump line was kept secure - with great difficulty

.

Oh yeah, we shouldn't forget to mention Gemini. Not that there's much to say. Both sides treated it as a backwater - and if you look at the distance between Kilrah and the S'kh'haral quadrant in Trk'pahn, it's not difficult to see why. For the Kilrathi, launching an offensive here would have been a logistical nightmare. So, they mostly just sent raiders into the sector. These raiders caused a great deal of trouble - especially during the Retro insurgence - but fortunately a certain Privateer (

) helped keep them at bay by killing the commander of the local Kilrathi forces.

 

[Earthworm]

WCP is good graphically and all, but Origin did a really crappy job overall of Prophecy, an even worse job on Secret Ops, and I'm somehow glad they won't finish off the Prophecy "trilogy", as the story would probably get thinner still, leaving the consumer with the worst ending in the history of mankind.

If anything, it's EA that screwd over Prophecy. And what kind of story did you expect from a game that was released for free over the net? Maybe OSI should have spent millions of dollars, to make couple hours of cutscenes, and release them as an optional 3 gig download?

Of course, if the money grubbing slimeballs would take their dormant WC franchise and hand it over to DA, then the world would make a little more sense again.

Yeah, a WC game with 20 minutes of CGI from DA would be much better than Prophecy which has about as much cutscenes as WC3.

 

[Nemesis]

The "Prophecy" map is a poor guide to the actual layout of Confederation and Kilrathi space, and tells us nothing about how quick or easy it is to traverse that space.

The map states that its purpose is to serve "as a navigational aid in plotting jump routes". But we should not assume that a single jump route joining two systems necessarily translates into only two jump points. In Fleet Action, for example, Tolwyn notes (p.209) that there are four jump points between Sirius and Earth.

Further, the map disclaims showing "the absolute positions of individual systems", so does not even attempt to suggest the distances between systems (let alone their related jump points) and thus the corresponding three-dimensional structure and relationship among the Sectors.

To me, though, the most interesting question the map begs is "travel time". In Fleet Action, Tolwyn estimates in regard to the impending invasion (p.193): "[F]lank speed could put them across the Empire in twelve, fourteen days. From the frontier to Earth, another ten days." But in "Armada's" Voices of War we are told: "The home planet of the Kilrah culture is nestled within the Orion arm of the Milky Way; a year-and-a-half's travel from the Terran base of Earth." I've wondered how to harmonize these statements. (And IIRC, in 2681, it certainly didn't take the TCS Midway very long to make the journey from Kilrah to Sol.)

 

[Earthworm]

The "Prophecy" map is a poor guide to the actual layout of Confederation and Kilrathi space, and tells us nothing about how quick or easy it is to traverse that space.

Actually, it isn't poor. There are many systems not shown on the map, but it serves it's purpose (which could be to look nice on a wall) quite well.

But we should not assume that a single jump route joining two systems necessarily translates into only two jump points.

The map shows the known jump routes, it obviously can't show ones that haven't be explored yet.

In Fleet Action, for example, Tolwyn notes (p.209) that there are four jump points between Sirius and Earth.

Which means absolutely nothing since there are many mistakes in the novels.

Further, the map disclaims showing "the absolute positions of individual systems", so does not even attempt to suggest the distances between systems (let alone their related jump points) and thus the corresponding three-dimensional structure and relationship among the Sectors.

Considering that we have practicly no control over jump routes, an exact time of travel doesn't exist.

To me, though, the most interesting question the map begs is "travel time". In Fleet Action, Tolwyn estimates in regard to the impending invasion (p.193): "[F]lank speed could put them across the Empire in twelve, fourteen days. From the frontier to Earth, another ten days." But in "Armada's" Voices of War we are told: "The home planet of the Kilrah culture is nestled within the Orion arm of the Milky Way; a year-and-a-half's travel from the Terran base of Earth." I've wondered how to harmonize these statements. (And IIRC, in 2681, it certainly didn't take the TCS Midway very long to make the journey from Kilrah to Sol.)

Can't comment on that, since I don't have Armada, but it definetly wouldn't take a year and a half to travel to Kilrah (unless frlying through unexplored systems and jump points.



[This message has been edited by Earthworm (edited September 26, 2000).]

 

[Nemesis]

Actually, [the "Prophecy" map] isn't poor. There are many systems not shown on the map, but it serves it's purpose (which could be to look nice on a wall) quite well.

Oh, the map itself is great, no question. But it's designed as a navigational aid, and so is a poor resource from which to glean military strategy or to understand the precise spatial relationships of Systems and Sectors.

The map shows the known jump routes, it obviously can't show ones that haven't be explored yet.

My point is simply that a "jump route" shown directly connecting two Systems may comprise more than two connecting jump points (as in the example in Fleet Action). And to the extent there are Systems not shown on the map, that also proves the point ipso facto.

[Tolwyn's statement in Fleet Action] means absolutely nothing since there are many mistakes in the novels.

So we should dismiss each and every novel in total? My impression has been that statements in the novels should be taken seriously unless they irreconcilably conflict with information from the games. We don't have such a conflict here, unless of course you know of a source that establishes, directly or indirectly, that there's only a single jump (just two connecting jump points) linking Sirius to Earth.

Considering that we have practicly no control over jump routes, an exact time of travel doesn't exist.

I was only saying that the map doesn't tell us anything about the general distance between two jumps, or from the endpoint of one jump to the jump point for the next.

Can't comment on that, since I don't have Armada, but it definetly wouldn't take a year and a half to travel to Kilrah (unless frlying through unexplored systems and jump points.

Well, the "Armada" book's statement still poses a conflict, first with the book's own timeline and its summary of 2668, second with Fleet Action which is set in 2668, and third with one or more other games such as "Prophecy". But before dismissing the statement outright, shouldn't we first see if there's any way to harmonize the conflict? (BTW, the "Armada" statement appears in the game book's "Introduction" on the second page following the title page, which "Introduction", just to confuse matters further, might be dated in or around 2664.)

 

[Earthworm]

But it's designed as a navigational aid, and so is a poor resource from which to glean military strategy or to understand the precise spatial relationships of Systems and Sectors.

It's not designed as an navigational aid though.

My impression has been that statements in the novels should be taken seriously unless they irreconcilably conflict with information from the games. We don't have such a conflict here, unless of course you know of a source that establishes, directly or indirectly, that there's only a single jump (just two connecting jump points) linking Sirius to Earth.

The map does show that there's only one jump rout. Yes, there are many systems, jump routes and whatever else there can be, that's not shown on the map, but that doesn't mean that things shown on it are any less important. And since the map came with a game...

I was only saying that the map doesn't tell us anything about the general distance between two jumps, or from the endpoint of one jump to the jump point for the next.

But that information would be completly useless. Why would you want to know how much space is there between Sirius and Earth for example?


[This message has been edited by Earthworm (edited September 27, 2000).]

 

[Saturnyne]

I was under the impression that jump technology allowed a ship to get from one point to another without having actually traversed that distance... hence, time between jump points would be useless, because you could jump from Earth to some other system in a split second.

That is, if that's how jump technology works...

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[Nemesis]

[The map's] not designed as an navigational aid though.

Perhaps if I quote from the map again (top right side): "[The Akwende Projection] is set up as a base navigational aid in plotting jump routes."

The map does show that there's only one jump rout. Yes, there are many systems, jump routes and whatever else there can be, that's not shown on the map, but that doesn't mean that things shown on it are any less important. And since the map came with a game...

The map does show jump routes, but only jump routes. The map does not show the jump points that make up a given jump route, and so does not contradict the statement in Fleet Action.

But that information would be completly useless. Why would you want to know how much space is there between Sirius and Earth for example?

I was referring to separate jumps. Any pilot would want to know the location and distance between jump points in and around a given System.

 

[Earthworm]

BTW, anyone has a Prophecy map to spare? Mine is almost completly destroyed, and since PG didn't come with a map. So anyhow, if you could send me a map that's in a good condition than e-mail me.

Perhaps if I quote from the map again (top right side): "[The Akwende Projection] is set up as a base navigational aid in plotting jump routes."

No, I meant that it's not a navigetional aid in a sense as something you would need in the game. Anyhow, technicly it is a navigational aid. It does tell you from which system you can jump to some other one. The prophecy map is something you could find in the captains quarters, so he could plan out some tactics while not on duty.

The map does show jump routes, but only jump routes. The map does not show the jump points that make up a given jump route, and so does not contradict the statement in Fleet Action.

So you think that there are three other systems through which you have to jump before you can get to Earth?

I was referring to separate jumps. Any pilot would want to know the location and distance between jump points in and around a given System.

They have their nav computers for that though.

[This message has been edited by Earthworm (edited September 28, 2000).]

 

[Earthworm]

I was under the impression that jump technology allowed a ship to get from one point to another without having actually traversed that distance... hence, time between jump points would be useless, because you could jump from Earth to some other system in a split second.

That is, if that's how jump technology works...

Sometimes it takes a second, but sometimes you'll have to travel through hyperspace between the two points. An example of that is shown in WC Academy TV series, when Blair is writing a letter to his family while traveling between two jump points.