Pre-renders in Wing Commander?

OM Curator

Museum Curator
Greetings!

There's a post in a collecting forum where folks are discussing pre-rendered graphics using SGI computers. I remember the WC2 cut scenes at the beginning--they *looked* like pre-renders, but I want to get all of the facts before I post.

"WC3 used actual 3D models for gameplay; WC2 and Privateer used
pre-rendered sprites from various angles. WC1 drew them by hand, I believe"

...That's not right, is it? Wing 2 used 3-D models in it's cutscenes, and they were SGI renders. I even heard that there are models that may still exist from that time?

Please give me details--I need to set the record straight.

Thanks!
 
"WC3 used actual 3D models for gameplay; WC2 and Privateer used
pre-rendered sprites from various angles. WC1 drew them by hand, I believe"

...That's not right, is it? Wing 2 used 3-D models in it's cutscenes, and they were SGI renders. I even heard that there are models that may still exist from that time?

It's not right, but not for the reason you cited. The initial quote is correct in that everything in Wing Commander 2 is *pre-rendered*... the game contains no 3D models. The movie cutscenes were rendered out by Origin on "high end hardware, a 486 processor, 16MB of RAM and an enourmous hard drive" (WC1/2 Guide) -- being able to render out cutscenes on-the-fly is a recent achievement (so, the FMV games are in this sense exactly the same as WC2... there are no 'high res' models contained in WC3/WC4/WCP/Privateer 2 for their cutscenes, it's all done in advance).

I don't know anything about SGI -- the WC2 models were developed in Autodesk 3D Studio for DOS. Many of them do still exist... I gave you a CD of them years ago, they should be somewhere in your own collection.

The error in the original statement is Wing Commander I, which was not drawn by hand... its models were developed on an Amiga (on some weird platform -- Aegis Modeler, possibly). Because of the difficulty in transfering files from an Amiga (and the uselessness of doing so at the time), I don't know of anyone who has backed up copies of these.

Cutscenes in the original Wing Commander *were* done entirely by hand (except where they used in-game sprites), which is what makes it distinct from the other titles.
 
Bandit LOAF said:
It's not right, but not for the reason you cited. The initial quote is correct in that everything in Wing Commander 2 is *pre-rendered*... the game contains no 3D models. The movie cutscenes were rendered out by Origin on "high end hardware, a 486 processor, 16MB of RAM and an enourmous hard drive" (WC1/2 Guide) -- being able to render out cutscenes on-the-fly is a recent achievement (so, the FMV games are in this sense exactly the same as WC2... there are no 'high res' models contained in WC3/WC4/WCP/Privateer 2 for their cutscenes, it's all done in advance).

Yes--that is exactly what I was trying to point out--so it *WAS* the reason that I cited! I just cited it very badly! :) I wanted to clarify that although the gameplay uses sprites, the cutscenes were actually 'rendered' using actual 3-D models, and then they rendered the cutscene from that.

Bandit LOAF said:
I don't know anything about SGI -- the WC2 models were developed in Autodesk 3D Studio for DOS. Many of them do still exist... I gave you a CD of them years ago, they should be somewhere in your own collection...

Yes--I still have them. Is the source of these models still 'unknown'?

Bandit LOAF said:
The error in the original statement is Wing Commander I, which was not drawn by hand... its models were developed on an Amiga (on some weird platform -- Aegis Modeler, possibly). Because of the difficulty in transfering files from an Amiga (and the uselessness of doing so at the time), I don't know of anyone who has backed up copies of these.

I think what they mean by 'drawn by hand' is that they were not 'automatically renered'--he means sprites.

Bandit LOAF said:
Cutscenes in the original Wing Commander *were* done entirely by hand (except where they used in-game sprites), which is what makes it distinct from the other titles.

What about the 'rotoscoping' of the running scene in Wing 1? I had heard that it was Erin Roberts running on a treadmill. This was filmed, and then 'digitized' for the scene (I assume that they just 'drew' over the 8-or-so digitized frames using a paint program to make the individual 'movie'), but I guess that counts as 'by hand'.

Thanks LOAF! I'm gonna post this info to the group.
 
Yes--that is exactly what I was trying to point out--so it *WAS* the reason that I cited! I just cited it very badly! I wanted to clarify that although the gameplay uses sprites, the cutscenes were actually 'rendered' using actual 3-D models, and then they rendered the cutscene from that.

Yes, this is a constant. Every cutscene from WC2 on is a pre-rendered sequence that uses 3D models (or live actors). The original quote looks like it's referring to the game engine, though.

Yes--I still have them. Is the source of these models still 'unknown'?

Yes.


I think what they mean by 'drawn by hand' is that they were not 'automatically renered'--he means sprites.

... then he's wrong about Wing Commander 2 and Privateer, which used sprites. I think he's repeating the often-said-but-incorrect belief that WC1s ships were hand drawn and did not have 'source' models like WC2/Priv did.


What about the 'rotoscoping' of the running scene in Wing 1? I had heard that it was Erin Roberts running on a treadmill. This was filmed, and then 'digitized' for the scene (I assume that they just 'drew' over the 8-or-so digitized frames using a paint program to make the individual 'movie'), but I guess that counts as 'by hand'.

I've never heard that story. I know this is the technique they used for the FMV sequences in Wing Commander II (Angel & Blair kissing, Jazz pulling a gun, a few others).
 
I'm fairly certain the WC1/2 guide talks about them using rotoscoping for the scramble sequence. I don't recall if Erin Roberts is specifically mentioned as the running guy, though.
 
I have a little request...
There is a possibility of have high-res renderings of these original models?
They will be very useful for fan created ships! Because making a 3D model from the 70x60 pixels sprites from the original games is though, very tough...
 
Venom said:
I have a little request...
There is a possibility of have high-res renderings of these original models?
They will be very useful for fan created ships! Because making a 3D model from the 70x60 pixels sprites from the original games is though, very tough...
I think there was a guy (I think his username was Marc) who was working on this.
 
Rotoscoping was hot in 1989, thanks to Prince of Persia.

The guy rotoscoped his brother on their backyard. Those were the days.
 
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