Palan missions problems

brandonyoung

Spaceman
I finally passed the Oxford missions, and went on to the Palan missions.

I'm surprised no one has mentioned this. One problem I noticed is that the locations of the missions are wrong. The first and second Palan missions in the original were around the jump to tingerhoff, not in the orbit of the planet, Palan. Murphy says we are intercepting them before they join the blockade. Only the third mission, where we are actually taking on the blockade, should be in the orbit around Palan.

Also, I landed on the planet right after finishing the third mission, and Dr. Monkhouse wasn't there. I had to go back to basra, then back to Palan to pick him up. In the original, as soon as the blockade is broken, I was able to meet him and take him to basra. I didn't have to get the final payment from Murphy before meeting the doctor on Palan.


I got tired to dying so many times on the first Palan mission, I decided to look at the units.csv file. In units.csv, I noticed demon.template has Autotracking on all of the weapon mounts. I removed autotracking from all of the mounts for the demon.template and it made the missions a lot easier. I guess that means that all of the demons have autotracking guns? No wonder the Palan mission was so tough.

--Brandon Young
 

Asciiman

Spaceman
Okay how did you modify the Demon? I noticed that every single demon in this game is like a monsterous unhittable machine, that never misses.

It is insane. In the original, they were only slightly better then the speed bumps that are talons, but in this one they are incredibly powerful. Too much shields, armor, guns and they like to wag their ass back and forth arcross space while fleeing from you, making a solid hit only possible through sheer luck.

So how did you modify the Demon?


-Asciiman
 

brandonyoung

Spaceman
I opened the units.csv file in Excel. Each row is labeled with a ship name and each collumn is labeled with a ship attribute. It seems pretty self-explanatory once you look at the file in Excel.

--Brandon Young
 

Asciiman

Spaceman
Pretty Self Explanatory? You have to be kidding. All I see are numbers organized into rows and colums. No where does it inform me or seem intuitive to try and figure out how to change their turning frequencies, or how fast they turn.

Not only that, but there are three demons listed. Demon, Demon.blank and Demon.template. Which one should be changed? All? One? Am I even in the right spot?

And after I change something, I save it under the same name? Do I have to load it up under my save game, or do I just reload as normal?

I'm sorry but I fail to see how this is self-explanatory.
 
To see what a column does, use the first row -- it says what each column under each cell does.

demon.blank is the MINIMUM amount of options a ship can have
demon is the DEFAULT loadout
demon.template is the MAXIMUM amount of options
 

dan_w

Spaceman
Changing units.csv changes all units in the game of the type you modify, except the ship you already own, if it is of that type.
You have to do nothing to your save games.

It is insane. In the original, they were only slightly better then the speed bumps that are talons, but in this one they are incredibly powerful. Too much shields, armor, guns and they like to wag their ass back and forth arcross space while fleeing from you, making a solid hit only possible through sheer luck.

No kidding. The second Murphy mission in RF, where you're swarmed by demons as you enter the jump point, I went in with my ultra-souped-up Centurion, and was gone in like 5 seconds. Didn't even get a chance to turn towards the first demon I selected. This is with generator #9 and shields #8, and 200 armor. And max afterburner speed of 2000, and double the normal acceleration and turning rates. 5 seconds I lasted.
Then I went in with my Paradigm, loaded with fusion turrets, ITTS and autotracking; and autotracking Steltek guns. I lasted maybe 10 seconds.
Finally, I gave my Paradigm 2000 armor and went in again, and this time they were gone in like 30 seconds.
Demons from Hell.

I think the developers were using only the demons, themselves, while playtesting. Am I right?
 

Asciiman

Spaceman
Okay thanks for the help. I think I'll give it a try.

So any recommendations on how to fix the.... pardon the language, "Demons from hell"(where else do they come from eh)?

I mainly want them to stop turning when you persue them so much. If I don't use missles or torpedoes I have to spend about 4 minutes on dogfighting one.
 

Grey_Slayer

Spaceman
I had problems with demons too, first in the oxford mission.. Browsing this board for a while I came to the conclusion I oughta dump my Cent and switch to a Demon myself, and man it worked I cant believe I actually flew the garbage dump, Demon is so kickass compared to it, got the Oxford mission on my first try with it (having failed countless times with the Centurion).

The Palan mission with the hordes of Demons still proved a bit too hard.. not willing to cheat or lower the difficulty, I figured lets go for some extreme measures.. I took a mission that involved 17 Kilrathi in the system.. The Kilrathi were pals with me so they didnt attack me.. Then I boosted amidst them, having the Hunter Demons chase me.. The cats attack everything so I only had to draw the Hunters in, dodge the Demons' fire and watch the fireworks :)
 

Chernikov

Spaceman
All demons have Autotracking? Things make more sense now... I'll go check out the other gear they have... hmm. "template" demon: Double-rack of heatseekers on one missile slot, 10 proton torps on the other (not possible with buyable demon). They've also got a miniscule moment of inertia (making the ship VERY agile and the spin-and-burn technique highly effective, ditto for the Dralthi, Talon, and all Confed milspec). Not 100% certain about the lateral thrust numbers but they look pretty hot. Also a level 6 repair droid, top ECM and resistance to ECM. Standard "demon" has all the toys but the repair and the ECM on it. Long story short: it's tough, and they've got all the toys, but these guys have probably been at it longer than you have.

On the other hand, after fighting six demons at once, Centurions aren't scary. Absolutely no fear. Nothing. Palan 3 went by faster than a single-demon duel. To quote Abels-Sensei, "TRAINING!". My favorite tactic against these little pains is to tail them as they try to make distance and throw a barrage of plasma into the area around them - keeping in mind that four plasma hits will take down class 2 shields and dent the armor underneath. Two proton torps along with the volley will make it a one-salvo kill. Tough to pull off, but when done right utterly devestating and applicable to any enemy in the game.
 

olDirtyMin

Spaceman
Agree, the demon is the best ship in the game. I just finished the original campaign in a fully kitted out demon. Once I got a joystick, the oxford missions weren't too bad and the palan missions were pretty straightforward. I think I died only once for all the palan missions.

Also, the ES missions are stupid easy if you have a cloak. The cloak totally unbalances the game mechanics.

With autotracking, my demon can rip through a cent like a knife through butter. I took on some of those bounty missions where you're up against 19, 20 talons, first in a loaded centurion, and then in my demon. I lasted maybe 30 seconds in my centurion before getting swarmed to death. In the demon, I bagged all of them in one try.
 

Asciiman

Spaceman
Okay so I edited what I could, and basically matched up the numbers to the talon or centurion, instead of inventing my own numbers.

Wow!! What a difference. I actually think I got them about right. In the original they were NOT hard. Now, when I fight ten of them, I might be able to do it. Despite all my rage what I can't understand is how this glaring oversight got through? Did someone not mention it during beta testing?

The demons have real balance issues and need to be fixed.

Thanks for your help guys. Now I'm back on track to owning the Gemini sector and having an absolute blast doing it.

Asciiman
 

Chernikov

Spaceman
Actually I don't think there's a problem with the Demons in and of themselves, but the corkscrew maneuver seems to be the saving grace of all lighter ships (the Cent and the Gothri don't have enough acceleration to pull it off properly). If there was some way to accurately target a corkscrewer I think it'd be about right... except a hair too cheap, and the lighter gun slots MIGHT be a good idea (I'm partial to the quad lasers, and the AI ships seem to be mostly lasers also, and I've got no problem with the slots as they are as a result.
 

dan_w

Spaceman
I finally bit the bullet and bought a demon. What a difference! This is how the Centurion was supposed to fly. In the original Privateer, the Centurion is a better fighter, not just a better cargo ship. No wonder they were kicking me! The numbers should be reversed between demon and cent.

EDIT:
In fact, in the original game, with the cent, one destroyed dozens of demons, no problem; but the few occasions of having to fight another cent they were tough!
 

Penta2

Spaceman
Remembering the playtesters guide and the manual for Priv from long ago:

The Demon and Orion are tanks. They're meant to be able to play against the biggest ships and at least survive. Meanwhile, they can still lug light cargo loads.

The Centurion is a fighter. Agility is the operative word, along with speed and weaponry. However, they have light armor, and minimal cargo space.
 

JKeefe

Spaceman
Asciiman said:
Wow!! What a difference. I actually think I got them about right. In the original [demons] were NOT hard. Now, when I fight ten of them, I might be able to do it. Despite all my rage what I can't understand is how this glaring oversight got through? Did someone not mention it during beta testing?
During testing I thought the Demons were hard. I also was able to complete the privateer storyline - I did it in a Centurion and in a Demon, and it was not significantly harder in the Centurion.

Perhaps the problem is that all of the testers have higher than average Privateer skills? Personally, I am a flight simmer, and this things is a hell of a lot easier to fly than any real aircraft.

So, there didn't appear to be an glaring oversight during beta. Demons are definitely the deadliest opponents, though, (until you stumble across 20 Kamehks...), and so the problem is magnified because it is acting as a choke point in the storyline for many players.
 

monkeyboy

Spaceman
The Demon and Orion are tanks. They're meant to be able to play against the biggest ships and at least survive. Meanwhile, they can still lug light cargo loads.

the original manual list the demon as a light fighter (similar to the dralthi) with 2 lasers, 2 meson, 2(!!) HS and 10 protons. it's only because of the protons that they are usable against capital ships (don't forget that lasers were much weaker in the original).
 
Very strange...

I managed, after several attempts, to pass the Oxford missions without needing to resort to cheating.

Soon after I took up Mission 1 for Palan, and simply couldn't do it. I gave it maybe 10 tries, and always ended up getting ripped apart by the many demons (I'd autopilot to Palan and come out surrounded by 4-6, and get killed pretty fast, even with 2 Orion wingmen).

So I stopped playing the storyline for a bit, and got bored of trading so I left the game for a few days. Just came back to try it out, and to my surprise it seemed almost easy. To be sure, I was almost killed at one point and had to cloak to get out of the mess (I then flew 4000-5000 km ahead and recharged my shields halfway, then turned around to meet the pursuit). But it seemed a heck of a lot easier than before, the Demons weren't flying around like chimpanzees on steroids. They seemed to be giving me a lot of clear shots at their aft shields, a stark contrast to the struggles I was making earlier.

Very strange to see such a reversal of luck...especially since I haven't played for a few days so I'm probably slightly worse of a pilot than I was before.

I took on the Centurions in Mission 2 and they were literally sitting ducks for my 4 plasma guns.

I guess I'll up the difficulty a notch...might have brought it down by accident (was playing on "Hard").
 
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