Need Info

[gevatter Lars]

I was thinking about a little campain (for FS2 TC) introducing the Snake destroyer and the Black Guard Carrier.

The infos I need are:
1) Does the BW allready exist during the Kilrathi war? I think yes, because somewhere it was mentiont that the BW where always the little child of the Confed during the conflict.

2) If the first answere is yes, does they have there own military forces and what kind of ships do they use?
If you ask me they would use the same ships as in WC IV.

 

[Bandit LOAF]

The Border Worlds don't exist as a political entity -- they exist in that they are the worlds on the border with the Kilrathi, where Confed fought most of the war.

 

[gevatter Lars]

But whats about the BW in WC IV. It is set "shortly" after the Kilrathi war. In this short time they couldn't build up there own militia and become political indepenend.
Beside that, when the BW where only THE Border Worlds, from where did they get there ships in WC4, or say it in the other way, why doesn't the confeds never used the ships seen in WC IV during the Kilrathi war? I mean I would always use a Vindicator instead of the Hellcat and the Avenger is a quite good bomber.

From this point of view I would say that the BW where allready a political and military staate during the Kilrath War.

 

[Bandit LOAF]

Wing Commander IV is set four years after the Kilrathi War (2673). The Border Worlds militia is tiny and fairly pathetic... most of their forces come from either Confed units which switched loyalties or local garrison forces of older fighters. Their military is nothing impressive -- the Banshee is an ancient patrol fighter and the Avenger is a converted shuttle (seen on WCA). The Intrepid and Tango are converted destroyers, and their other carriers (a couple escorts) are on loan from the Landreich.

 

[Delta_Strife]

The BW military is not good. But what can you expect from a group of people that were always under attack by the Kilrathi during the war.

 

[Raptor]

Well, if you're under attack (or threat of attack) there is more incentive for you to build your military than otherwise. The problem for the BW in WC4 was that their military contribution had been integrated into the Confed forces during the war, and so they didn't have much of their own when the face off with Confed came. It takes a lot more than2=3 years to build a capable military, let alone the infrastructure fto support it.

Hmmm. A small rag-tag militia with borrowed equipment, half trained pilots and obsolete fighters, and still the Black Lance with their state of the art Dragons and weapons couldn't put them down. Makes you really wonder about the Master Race, doesn't it?

Best, Raptor

 

[gevatter Lars]

So you would also say that there was a BW garrison force during the Kilrathi war and that they had only this old fighters and caps, is that right?

 

[panther]

Originally posted by Delta_Strife
The BW military is not good. But what can you expect from a group of people that were always under attack by the Kilrathi during the war.

The majority (at least in the books) of the BW equipment is second line stuff, but there was never anything wrong with their skills.

Loaf mentioned that the Banshee was an old patrol fighter, and we know that the Avenger was an old atmospheric shuttle originally.

I would suggest that this means that the BW put most of their post-war efforts into making a multi-role fighter (The Vin), but that, like any wise people, had a backup plan and converted the Banshee's and Avengers so if the Vin project failed, they would still have capable fighters/bombers. If you threw all your efforts into one project, it may be possible to go from plan to early production in 3 or 4 years.

How long did it take to get the Excal from plan to production? I don't remember there being any suggestion of the Excal prior to WC3 and if I remember rightly WC2 was only set about 5 years before WC3.

 

[Haesslich]

Originally posted by gevatter Lars
I was thinking about a little campain (for FS2 TC) introducing the Snake destroyer and the Black Guard Carrier.

The infos I need are:
1) Does the BW allready exist during the Kilrathi war? I think yes, because somewhere it was mentiont that the BW where always the little child of the Confed during the conflict.

2) If the first answere is yes, does they have there own military forces and what kind of ships do they use?
If you ask me they would use the same ships as in WC IV.

1. There are border worlds during the Confed/Kilrathi conflict, which were devastated during the early days of the war so their numbers tend to be low. The Union of Border Worlds was not formed till their formal secession from the Terran Confederation during the events of WC4 (2673). There is the Landsreich, which is a planet or set of several planets, but nowhere near as big a political entity as it was by False Colors, about a year or so after the end of the Kilrathi conflict.

2. Each colony world tended to have its own militia forces, maybe a Confed unit stationed there. These usually use second-line equipment cast off from the front-line Confeds. Which is why, in Fleet Action, Bear was surprised to see state-of-the-art equipment in the Landsreich arsenal. So if you're talking about a WC1-era setting for your border world, they probably have pre-War equipment. WC2, think WC1 equipment. WC3, think WC2 equipment with some WC1 stuff. Pre-WC4, think WC2 and WC1 equipment. By WCP time, think some equipment from WC3 and maybe old Hellcats and Arrows. And a few Vindicators, Banshees, Avengers, etc.

 

[Haesslich]

Originally posted by panther


How long did it take to get the Excal from plan to production? I don't remember there being any suggestion of the Excal prior to WC3 and if I remember rightly WC2 was only set about 5 years before WC3.

WC3 took place over several months, and the Excaliburs were being talked about even near the beginning of it, if you talked to Rachel in the bar when she was looking over the schematics. It was a prototype, with the first squadron of prototypes assigned to the Victory for the final Kilrah strike. They were probably in development for about three years before that (after the confirmation of the cloaked fighters and a likely capture, if we take Fleet Action as a source, which took place just before WC3 and some time after Armada). Remember, in 'Victory Streak' we have an interview with Flash who was flying Excals as a test pilot (at least the KS Victory Streak).

 

[gevatter Lars]

My campain is set during the Kilrathi war and I wanted to use a Durango, 2 Caernaven and some Banshee and Avenger as part of a small group operating as some kind of garrsion force. Is that realistic?

To get it right the Vindicator was at a prototype stage at this time, so mybe I could use a downgraded version. If it is so mhh an idea is coming up... what the Excalibur was for Blair is the Vindicator Prototype for others...

 

[Haesslich]

Originally posted by gevatter Lars
My campain is set during the Kilrathi war and I wanted to use a Durango, 2 Caernaven and some Banshee and Avenger as part of a small group operating as some kind of garrsion force. Is that realistic?

To get it right the Vindicator was at a prototype stage at this time, so mybe I could use a downgraded version. If it is so mhh an idea is coming up... what the Excalibur was for Blair is the Vindicator Prototype for others...

Then you need to find out when the Durango-class destroyers were decomissioned, when the Landreich or whatever border world got their hands on them, and also what border world you're talking about since the UBW is several decades away depending on what time period you're talking about. The Kilrathi War lasted for over 40 years, no? If you're too early, the Durangos are front-line craft. And I doubt the Vindicator prototype would have as... much impact as the Excal did. It's not too special a fighter-bomber, really.

 

[Raptor]

Be carefull, my friend. The Vindicator Cult has a very long reach...

As for the Durangos, Blairs say in TPOF that they were obsolete 10 years ago (which would be 2663) so they would work for anything except a WC1 or pre WC1 campaign.

Best, Raptor

 

[Haesslich]

Originally posted by Raptor
Be carefull, my friend. The Vindicator Cult has a very long reach...

As for the Durangos, Blairs say in TPOF that they were obsolete 10 years ago (which would be 2663) so they would work for anything except a WC1 or pre WC1 campaign.

Best, Raptor

Let's just say my Dragon waits for their Vindicators. Stormfire cannons versus fission cannons.... or even just four tachyons.

 

[gevatter Lars]

I dont have a exact time, but the last month of the Kilrathi War. Nearly the same time as WC3 takes pleace.
For the BW topic, I think I will change the story so that the Durango and fighters belong to the confeds, but aren't nothing more then a garrison forces with low budged technologie.
About the Vindicator, sure it isn't the Excalibur or the Dragon, but it was a new fighter at this time and the first med fighter using Torpedos! I mean think about it, normaly you need a Thunderbold or Longbow to take out a capship. Now you have med fighters that also can do the job. It would be a quite surprise for an enemy that dosn't expect that.

Other thing, has somebody a list with the data of the ships that includes the time when they where build and when decomissioned.

 

[panther]

Originally posted by Haesslich


Let's just say my Dragon waits for their Vindicators. Stormfire cannons versus fission cannons.... or even just four tachyons.

I never seemed to have any problems knocking Dragons down with a Stormfire Maybe the BL forces just weren't as good as they thought they were

 

[Haesslich]

Originally posted by panther


I never seemed to have any problems knocking Dragons down with a Stormfire Maybe the BL forces just weren't as good as they thought they were

Remember that, whenever you fly a fighter, the stats on it get better. It's in the WC4 Hint book: they note that the fighters you fly end up having more armor because, and I quote, 'you're special'.

Besides that, the BL forces were crap. I mean, Blair beat Seether too damned easily in the last battle, if you took a few shots at him.

 

[Wedge009]

Originally posted by Haesslich
...or even just four tachyons.

Two tachyons, two plasmas.

Originally posted by gevatter Lars
Now you have med[ium] fighters that also can [carry torpedoes].

Any ship can carry torps, if appropriately modified. Heh, heh, a torpedo on an Epee.

Originally posted by gevatter Lars
Other thing, has somebody a list with the data of the ships that includes the time when they were built and decomissioned?

Ask LOAF.

Originally posted by Haesslich
I mean, Blair beat Seether too easily in the last battle, if you took a few shots at him.

Or drop a few decoys...

 

[Raptor]

My favourite tactic is just to shoot Seether in the face with a couple of image-rec missiles right on the first pass. There's a lot of satisfaction in sending him to meet his maker just after he gives that gloating speech about Blair being a symbol of the past.

Best, Raptor

 

[Haesslich]

Originally posted by Raptor
My favourite tactic is just to shoot Seether in the face with a couple of image-rec missiles right on the first pass. There's a lot of satisfaction in sending him to meet his maker just after he gives that gloating speech about Blair being a symbol of the past.

Best, Raptor

Well, the irony IS rather delicious.. or is it poetic justice?

And note to self: stop confusing Bearcat guns with Dragon guns. Great fighters, the both of them, but I like my cloak.