you could be right on the the fact that the enemy can't detect the missile since it is using the awacs radar but i think some of it has to do with the type of radar used by the amraam itself. yeah it was you and your wingman against 12+ enemy fighters and your wingman usually sucked. Well no shame in getting shot down by a mig-25 it is one of the russians better older generation aircraft. I dunno if anyone has heard but i seem to remember reading about a short range missile that someone is developing that performs similiar to a confed IR, it memorized the distinctive heat signature of its target or something, i coulda been dreaming or something though.
Missile launch! Hit the deck!
- Thread starter Bob McDob
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Wedge009
Rogue Leader
I dislike FFs for all the above reasons. 
But I'll admit they're good for popping Stingrays, Skates and anything else which doesn't have decoys - saves wasting IRs!
And 'tis strange that I've never noticed the FF targeting friendly Kilrathi ships in WC1. Maybe 'cause I hardly use missiles except in WCP. Also never remembered friendly fire FFs due to damaged comm systems. Probably for the same reason.
Do FFs target the Shar N'Tanya in SO1?
But I'll admit they're good for popping Stingrays, Skates and anything else which doesn't have decoys - saves wasting IRs!I like running into them with my Broadsword at the end of a mission. Yes, I know that's strange...Originally posted by Penguin
I remember firng an FF when there weren't any bandits. It actually just sat there!
And 'tis strange that I've never noticed the FF targeting friendly Kilrathi ships in WC1. Maybe 'cause I hardly use missiles except in WCP. Also never remembered friendly fire FFs due to damaged comm systems. Probably for the same reason.
Do FFs target the Shar N'Tanya in SO1?
To be perfectly honest, the SWACS in WC is pretty pitiful.
The Midway should have a couple of SWACS escorting her at all times. Any attacking bombers should be picked up by the SWACS long before they come into range of the Midway. Attacking fighters should have to fly through a hail of long range missiles guided by the SWACS radar long before their own radar can lock targets, defenders should be vectored to important targets (e.g. bombers) by the SWACS crew etc.
None of this happens however.
I use this as an excuse for extensive use of the nav-map. When I use the navmap (pausing the game) to calmly select and target the bomber that has locked onto the midway, I pretend this is the SWACS (or the Midways combat center) crew identifying the priority targets for me.
Raven,
The IR memorizes the visual signature of the target: Image Recognition. What you are talking about is nothing new, infrared seekers have been around a long time. Classic example: the AIM-9 Sidewinder.
As for the Shar N'Tanya, it is a Ralatha, so you can't hurt it with FoFs anyway.
The IR memorizes the visual signature of the target: Image Recognition. What you are talking about is nothing new, infrared seekers have been around a long time. Classic example: the AIM-9 Sidewinder.
As for the Shar N'Tanya, it is a Ralatha, so you can't hurt it with FoFs anyway.
Bob McDob
Better Health Through Less Flavor
On a related note, how effective are the flak and turret guns at shooting down torpedoes? Because we all know that's what they're REALLY there for...and how does it compare with anti-EXOCET and Harpoon weapons? Just curious, mainly because my philosophy is "If you give them time to line up a torp you're dead".
Bob McDob
Better Health Through Less Flavor
...
[Translation: Okaaaaaaaaay... [edges away from Midway]
It's the ultimate form of Friendly Fire! When your targeting computer CAN NOT distinguish between friend or foe! Hey that gives me an idea regarding the Tiamat...]
[Edited by Bob McDob on 06-04-2001 at 00:52]
Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
Midway does always have SWACS up, just not close by -- remember, they jumped ahead of her at the start of the game?
Raven0215: The ATF wingman did not suck. He was pretty good as long as you kept him on a tight leash.
As for the Imrecs. I don't think any missile today compares with the Imrec since doesn't the Imrec remember the actual appearance of the target, rather than some form of its emission?
Modern Infra Red guided missiles today are becoming very sensitive and accurate. This is to make them more effective and prevent the missiles from mistaking the Sun as their target.
Modern examples include AIM-9X Sidewinder 2000, Python 4, R-73, ASRAAM, et al.
Bob McDob: I would imagine the AWACS of today does exactly the same thing as the SWACS of tommorrow.
WC2 flak turrets are really good at downing torps. You have to close within 2000 klicks to even have a chance. Laser turrets from the later games don't seem to be as effective. Contemporary systems like Aegis are said to be capable but they've never really been tested in an actual war.
AzraeL: You're right. The SWACS should detect enemies before they get close. That is afterall the point of an early warning system.
Quarto: It's not strange if your tech has a nasty habit of constantly repeating herself everytime you get back.
As for the Imrecs. I don't think any missile today compares with the Imrec since doesn't the Imrec remember the actual appearance of the target, rather than some form of its emission?
Modern Infra Red guided missiles today are becoming very sensitive and accurate. This is to make them more effective and prevent the missiles from mistaking the Sun as their target.
Modern examples include AIM-9X Sidewinder 2000, Python 4, R-73, ASRAAM, et al.Bob McDob: I would imagine the AWACS of today does exactly the same thing as the SWACS of tommorrow.
WC2 flak turrets are really good at downing torps. You have to close within 2000 klicks to even have a chance. Laser turrets from the later games don't seem to be as effective. Contemporary systems like Aegis are said to be capable but they've never really been tested in an actual war.
AzraeL: You're right. The SWACS should detect enemies before they get close. That is afterall the point of an early warning system.
Quarto: It's not strange if your tech has a nasty habit of constantly repeating herself everytime you get back.
Wedge009
Rogue Leader
I like Azrael's excuse for using the nav map. In 'reality', fighters shouldn't be sent out independently as in WC, they're assigned priority targets and squadron co-ordination is essential in defeating an enemy, more so when the enemy has superior numbers. Hmm, R2 units should be good for that sort of thing.
WC2 capship turrets are excellent at shooting torpedoes down - if you give them the chance. 2000 might be cutting it a bit too close, 4000 is my optimal range for launching torps, maybe 5000 max.
Q: It is strange indeed, but as I said, I seldom use missiles, so I enjoy wasting them on the Concordia. When I find the FFs go nowhere, I run into them
WC2 capship turrets are excellent at shooting torpedoes down - if you give them the chance. 2000 might be cutting it a bit too close, 4000 is my optimal range for launching torps, maybe 5000 max.
Q: It is strange indeed, but as I said, I seldom use missiles, so I enjoy wasting them on the Concordia. When I find the FFs go nowhere, I run into them
I dunno i never remember the atf wingman being very good. But i guess after you play games like longbow 2 and a couple of the newer sims the AI of a lot of the older games just doesn't stand out like it used to. The Aegis system of today is actually probobly one of the best systems in the world for defense. This system allows the aegis cruiser or destroyer(a slightly less capable system) to interface with all the other ships in the fleet and control there weapons systems. This means that if you have 100+ russian as or ss missiles targeted at your fleet no two ships will waste there missiles by firing at the same target. Also the aegis system is capable of engaging multiple missiles at once. I think its capable of launching something like 80 plus missiles in under two minutes. I haven't read tom clancy's red storm rising in a while but an aegis cruiser see's some action in his book. Most sam systems are able to engage only one or two missiles at a time while the aegis can engage something like 250 on the cruiser and 150 on the destroyer. I could be off on those numbers cause i don't feel like researching them at the moment but it would be nice if confed could field a missile ship that could put these numbers of missiles into the air. It's also surprising confed doesn't use stormfires for close in weapon systems to shoot down torpedoes kinda like the usn phalanx ciws system. Another nice weapon confed should employ would be something similiar to a phoenix missile although i guess you would need a gigantic warhead to be able to punch through shields and take out the ship in one hit to make the weapon really worth it
Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
Dictionary defines element as being made up of two or three aircraft.
Originally posted by Bob McDob
I'm pretty sure the WCIV guide states that ImRecs recognize features of your ship, and DO NOT actually memorize the silhoutte of the ship itself. That's why decoys work.
"Image Recognition (IR) missiles first came into use in the late 1900s, when rudimentary infrared and visual tracking technology was applied to air-to-air missiles. The basic design remains the same; however, the sensor systems have greatly improved. Today's IR missiles use computer imaging to identify and 'memorize' the silhouette of a targeted ship. After launch, the firing ship copies the IR, electronic, and visual signatures specific to that target to the missile's AI program. The missile will then track the target until impact." Joan's Fighting Spacecraft, weapons supplement. KS manual.
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