Bandit LOAF said:
While I agree with much of what you say, you are touching in a very big complaint I have about many fan projects: the assumption that their changes are somehow justified because the original game was "limited".
Unless you can absolutely prove that there was some desire to have more than 70 star systems in Privateer, to claim that they were removed for technical reasons is a poor excuse. How much memory does it take to define a system in Privateer? You could easily quadruple the number of systems in the original Privateer without running out of disk space -- most planets/bases/etc. use the same graphics set.
Ok, you raise several points here. True, systems can be produced almost for free, and one could go overboard, like Vegastrike. I cannot "absolutely prove" there was a desire to have more systems, but I can easily tackle the question of whether it would have been desirable (by the players). Game companies are out to make money, so perhaps the idea for them would be to have game sequels coming later with more systems, or access to other sectors. As to the question of desirability, I would say that a) The ratio of cookie cutter planets to special planets should not increase beyond what it is. If anything it should decrease, as it gets already pretty boring to land on so many non-distinct refineries or mines. But assuming the above, the question whether more special planets, like Perry, Oxford, Newcons, and Newdet would be desirable, I'd say, "the more, the merrier", as long as they fit in, of course, stylistically, and story-wise. So, it would seem to me that new systems would necessitate expanded story, otherwise they would be dead weight added. However, expanded story seems to be necessary in order to glue the end of Priv part 1 to RF, and a lot of new story will be needed in order to provide glue to Privateer 2 The Darkening, which happens in a different sector altogether.
We can't even prove that the scenes cut from Wing Commander III weren't done for a proper balancing reason - we certainly can't prove that X ship which doesn't appear or X system which isn't there were removed or intended or anything of the sort.
You got me there, I did not play other WC games, only Priv's. But I think I get the drift.
As I said, however, I agree with most of what you said about fans. Preferring one thing over another doesn't make you a true fan or any less of a fan. We're all Wing Commander fans (or Slashdot weirdos). In terms of the remake, it is being held to a standard because that is what it originally promised - we had Hellcat on IRC the other day complaining that people should play the 'true original' Privateer before trying Spirit's WCU patch...
Well, that's something I was going to mention. There's always the possibility of playing the original. And many people, I'm sure, will play the original, out of curiosity, after they've played the remake. I played MOO1 after having played MOO2, because I heard people who liked 1 better.
Complaining about the remake (which, incidentally, is not remotely what I was doing here - JKeefe was overreacting to an ordinary Wing Commander continuity note) is not to claim that it should not exist or that it is bad. There's this cult of anti-CIC-people people (hi, PeteyG - I don't know who you are or why you hate me) who likes to rant and rage whenever I think anything... but I absolutely do not hate the Privateer Remake. Absolutely, no matter what anyone will tell you I think. I deal with it the way I do because that's the best way to get my point across in a sea of people who could care less either way.
I'm with ya there. In fact, I do wish for the remake to stay pretty close to the original, myself. Why? Because I so much wish people who have never played Privateer before to have a similar experience to what I had. I cherish those days playing the original Privateer so much. But I do realize this is almost an impossible dream to have, because back in those days people didn't expect cinematic quality 3D, smoke-trails and fog, particle systems, CD quality music and voice acting; whereas today these things are taken for granted. So, I'm sort of resigned to that mostly it will be people who played the original, that will play the remake. In which case, might as well make something better than the original, which in many ways the remake already is.
When I played the original, I spent about a week after I finished it, looking for secret jump points to Kilrah. The reason: Lynch talks about receiving love letters from there, and some bartenders talk about "searching for it in Kilrah", so I thought there would be at least one Easter Egg system in Kilrah, with at least one planet, and a bar with a cat-faced bartender. Didn't find it, of course. Others were looking for a secret weapons cache. Seems to me, most of us were too disappointed to have the game end, and couldn't accept it at first.
Forgetting my original thought. Oh, yes, that I woud definitely want the remake to have the same feeling as the original. And I'd say this is what is important. And that discussions of changes shouldn't be objective argument of facts, since facts aren't what feelings are made of. As shady as discussing art and the subjective may be, I'd say there's no substitute for it. If someone said, let's have the Borg come in, I know that would change the feeling of the whole thing, and try to mix oil and water. But increasing the defenses of a drayman does not threaten the old, loving feeling. (Having new entire groups, like AWACS might, though..)
I make grandstanding points because it gets effects... I point out continuity points wherever possible because I think it helps people become more familiar with Wing Commander... but there is no *hate* there, there's no dislike.
I'm pretty new around here, and I wasn't aware of the 'hate' you're accused of, and in fact I wasn't thinking of you as a Retro ;-) And I fully agree with that changes should be justified, with that cannon should be a guideline, and that grandstanding sometimes gets a point across. I just did it by calling my opponents 'Retros' ;-)
What I would like is for the fanatical attitudes and gang attacks on every proposal to stop.
Whenever I played the original, I was always coming up with ideas for things I would have done differently (while maintaining the same feeling). In the cargo screen, for example, I would have had two columns, for quantity in stock, and quantity in ship. The game would have been better, I submit. I would strongly argue, however, for the remake to implement something close to the original screen, with the stock-room background. Having screens with solid backgrounds is a serious breach in the original's feeling, and artistic continuity, I find. In the original you feel like you're in that stock-room, and that's important to me. Same thing with the upgrades screen.
