I wouldn't go quite as far as to say that e-stalking and internet predation didn't exist back then, but they were definitely far less prevalent. You had to REALLY piss people off back then!
Memory Lane
- Thread starter ELTEE
- Start date
I wouldn't go quite as far as to say that e-stalking and internet predation didn't exist back then, but they were definitely far less prevalent. You had to REALLY piss people off back then!
Nomad Terror
Rear Admiral
Well of course you still didn't give out many personal details back then (along the lines of phone numbers and addresses), but e-stalking and predation hadn't evolved into the (forgive my use of the term for such a horrible thing) "art" form it is today.
Speaking from 1996 - 1997 experience (I can't remember exactly when my father first signed us up for Internet access from a local ISP, but I was 13 at the time), there was very little chance that someone might be able to find out any personal information about me without getting it directly from me. Nowadays search engines such as Google and social networks like Myspace make it easy to scout someone out. In the past 10 years I may have dropped my area code here, my phone number prefix there, my zip code somewhere else, maybe my initials somewhere else. Information that is not really very helpful to find me by itself, but if someone has been scouting me out this long or can collect this information retroactively then they could probably find and recognize me without having to every pry a single piece of information from me.
Speaking from 1996 - 1997 experience (I can't remember exactly when my father first signed us up for Internet access from a local ISP, but I was 13 at the time), there was very little chance that someone might be able to find out any personal information about me without getting it directly from me. Nowadays search engines such as Google and social networks like Myspace make it easy to scout someone out. In the past 10 years I may have dropped my area code here, my phone number prefix there, my zip code somewhere else, maybe my initials somewhere else. Information that is not really very helpful to find me by itself, but if someone has been scouting me out this long or can collect this information retroactively then they could probably find and recognize me without having to every pry a single piece of information from me.
ELTEE
Vice Admiral
I started visiting the internet when I was about 11 in 1995. I knew enough about computers to configure them to play my favorite games, but that was about it. As far as the internet went, I really only knew what my friends at the time did, and so missed out on most of the things you talk about.
I am really curious about newsgroups, and am having trouble trying to picture what they were. It almost sounds like you 'posted' in a similar fashion to writing an 'email?' Was it more difficult (read: slower) to have internet discussions back then?
It must have been a great time to be part of the WC universe online. I liken that time period to right after the Big Bang - the WC universe was expanding quickly and in many directions.
Thanks again to all for reminiscing...
Haesslich
Spaceman
I started back in high school, just before the Internet really exploded. And, as it happens, just after I'd started playing Wing Commander on a friend's PC (since I didn't have EGA capability, much less the VGA that WC3 would later use). At first, all the interaction went on via newsgroups, at least until the #DALnet channel was set up, way back when.
ELTEE: It was more like a forum which took more effort to work with, because you had to deal with mail clients, setting up clients with specific server settings, wait for things to download, and sometimes post in offline mode (read: you did your post after downloading everything over the 14.4, then posted later as you didn't want to be stuck wasting your x-number of hours free before getting hit with overuse charges, if you had THAT kind of dialup).
I remember that we had real interaction with guys like Boomer, who would comment on postings, and occasionally let slip other information. It was a heck of a time; a bit less 'democratic' in some ways (not everyone, their pet dog, and their idiot had access), but at the same time less hidebound and there felt like there was less signal-to-noise to deal with (spammers, etc).
ELTEE: It was more like a forum which took more effort to work with, because you had to deal with mail clients, setting up clients with specific server settings, wait for things to download, and sometimes post in offline mode (read: you did your post after downloading everything over the 14.4, then posted later as you didn't want to be stuck wasting your x-number of hours free before getting hit with overuse charges, if you had THAT kind of dialup).
I remember that we had real interaction with guys like Boomer, who would comment on postings, and occasionally let slip other information. It was a heck of a time; a bit less 'democratic' in some ways (not everyone, their pet dog, and their idiot had access), but at the same time less hidebound and there felt like there was less signal-to-noise to deal with (spammers, etc).
Ahh, the joy of being one of few my age who knows about old tech, but never had to deal with using it.
My first time on the interwebs was around 1997-1998 when I was 7 or 8, on a 56k modem with a PII. I, unlike most of you, had never heard of Wing Commander, and was blissfully in love with my Nintendo64 and the like. I knew next to nothing about the net, let alone what a newsgroup or the like was- I was on to play games and the like.
...I feel like some immature punk, standing here among all these people who actually went through an era that I've just read about when looking up retro games- its like the people connection to the era that I love messing with
My first time on the interwebs was around 1997-1998 when I was 7 or 8, on a 56k modem with a PII. I, unlike most of you, had never heard of Wing Commander, and was blissfully in love with my Nintendo64 and the like. I knew next to nothing about the net, let alone what a newsgroup or the like was- I was on to play games and the like.
...I feel like some immature punk, standing here among all these people who actually went through an era that I've just read about when looking up retro games- its like the people connection to the era that I love messing with
Mekt-Hakkikt
Mpanty's bane
My family got internet access in the late nineties but I wasn't interested in it at all, except for short information gathering. It was only when I discovered the CIC per chance that I took any interest in the world wide web. Before that I thought I was the only hard-core WC fan in the world. Now I don't even think I deserve the honorific hard-core 
I think that was in the year 2000, I lurked some time until I registered for the CIC. It was my first internet forum I ever used and still is the only one I really participate in.
BTW: not too long ago I checked some of my first posts and well, I always wanted to apologize for them: often I acted as if I knew better which was very often not the case. I was very excited, didn't know about netiquette and thought I knew everything about WC there was to know. And of course, I was 100% sure that no one could ever reconciliate the WCM with the games.
I think that was in the year 2000, I lurked some time until I registered for the CIC. It was my first internet forum I ever used and still is the only one I really participate in.BTW: not too long ago I checked some of my first posts and well, I always wanted to apologize for them: often I acted as if I knew better which was very often not the case. I was very excited, didn't know about netiquette and thought I knew everything about WC there was to know. And of course, I was 100% sure that no one could ever reconciliate the WCM with the games.
I actually came in from a different route than most of you. I started out in this community on the AOL Wing Commander chat based RPGs, particularly from one named The Elite. There were -several- AOL WC RPGs at that point in time and they were all big dislikers of the WC Aces heh. But that doesn't matter.
Anyway, I joined with them in '97, later joined another RPG based on Privateer, and from that I branched off and formed my own RPG called WC Marine Corps or something like that. This was all between '97 and '99. Somewhere in there I found a link to Chris Reid's newsgroup and posted on there a little but never became a full blown member or anything.
Anyway, I knew of the CIC's existance starting from when it first came up and checked it periodically but by no means as often as I do today. I did go into the IRC channels a bit, particularly when I was experimenting with the WC Aces club (which was fun by the way)... but not too long after that I discovered the MUSH Wing Commander Red Horizon and dropped off AOL to spend three years there until it closed down finally. For people who don't know what MUSHes are... I don't know, it was pretty neat. Like a text based MMO before anyone knew what MMOs were heh. It used a HSpace engine to simulate space combat and I had a lot of fun there. It ended in '02.
Not much happened for a while after that. I became involved in other gaming pursuits and while I still periodically played the WC games I was not overly involved in the community. I did keep track of the fan projects though, I specifically remember when Saga and Standoff were first announced. May of '06 I finally signed up for the CIC when I acquired a DOS copy of WC2 and needed help installing it, and I've basically hung around posting ever since.
Anyway, I joined with them in '97, later joined another RPG based on Privateer, and from that I branched off and formed my own RPG called WC Marine Corps or something like that. This was all between '97 and '99. Somewhere in there I found a link to Chris Reid's newsgroup and posted on there a little but never became a full blown member or anything.
Anyway, I knew of the CIC's existance starting from when it first came up and checked it periodically but by no means as often as I do today. I did go into the IRC channels a bit, particularly when I was experimenting with the WC Aces club (which was fun by the way)... but not too long after that I discovered the MUSH Wing Commander Red Horizon and dropped off AOL to spend three years there until it closed down finally. For people who don't know what MUSHes are... I don't know, it was pretty neat. Like a text based MMO before anyone knew what MMOs were heh. It used a HSpace engine to simulate space combat and I had a lot of fun there. It ended in '02.
Not much happened for a while after that. I became involved in other gaming pursuits and while I still periodically played the WC games I was not overly involved in the community. I did keep track of the fan projects though, I specifically remember when Saga and Standoff were first announced. May of '06 I finally signed up for the CIC when I acquired a DOS copy of WC2 and needed help installing it, and I've basically hung around posting ever since.
vindicator
Rear Admiral
I'd have to say that most of what's happened as it relates to me and this particular community has been almost always an accident. In 1996 I was getting ready to go visit my uncle who was getting married and he was a computer buff. He taught me how to play and beat the first ever computer game I ever played. Mechwarrior for a 286 computer that always sounded as if it would explode.
Anyway, during the two weeks we visited him in Rockford, Illinois. I saw my bother play WCII and was hooked by how awesome it was. I had no idea there were already two games out after it. So once my brother stopped playing it late one night I snuck myself into the computer room and used my limited knowledge of dos to get the game going, which took almost 20 minutes of intense fear that someone might catch me doing it and shutting the computer off several times. When I finally did get it going, I played from 12:30 am till 7 am. I managed just one hour of sleep, having to get up a go to a wedding rehearsal. I don't remember much except being completely obsessed with figuring out how to do it again that night.
I didn't really have ample opportunity to play another wing commander game until I got the internet, thanks to a related job needing computers. I payed $200 for basic parts and put together a 486 with an old 14.4 and thus began my journey here. I don't even remember what triggered my memory to look up Wing Commander, but I did. I first found an official Origin website just to see what was there and one of the links I found was to WCNews. You can imagine how much of an absolute joy it was to see something to which I had a brief and powerful obsession be the focus for some random people on the internet. I started my long journey over the last 9 years buying all the games, books, merchandise and anything WC. I have met so many cool people because of this place. It still remains, in my opinion, the best fan site ever built. It had everything and early on when I was still new here I remember LOAF was still building much of the site's info and map and ship databases from his work back in 2001. It was an impressive time and it's a good feeling to see how far this place has come over the years.
Sometimes I am not as dedicated as I once was here, I still have fond memories from all those years ago and wouldn't trade them for anything.
-Lt. Rance-
Anyway, during the two weeks we visited him in Rockford, Illinois. I saw my bother play WCII and was hooked by how awesome it was. I had no idea there were already two games out after it. So once my brother stopped playing it late one night I snuck myself into the computer room and used my limited knowledge of dos to get the game going, which took almost 20 minutes of intense fear that someone might catch me doing it and shutting the computer off several times. When I finally did get it going, I played from 12:30 am till 7 am. I managed just one hour of sleep, having to get up a go to a wedding rehearsal. I don't remember much except being completely obsessed with figuring out how to do it again that night.
I didn't really have ample opportunity to play another wing commander game until I got the internet, thanks to a related job needing computers. I payed $200 for basic parts and put together a 486 with an old 14.4 and thus began my journey here. I don't even remember what triggered my memory to look up Wing Commander, but I did. I first found an official Origin website just to see what was there and one of the links I found was to WCNews. You can imagine how much of an absolute joy it was to see something to which I had a brief and powerful obsession be the focus for some random people on the internet.
I started my long journey over the last 9 years buying all the games, books, merchandise and anything WC. I have met so many cool people because of this place. It still remains, in my opinion, the best fan site ever built. It had everything and early on when I was still new here I remember LOAF was still building much of the site's info and map and ship databases from his work back in 2001. It was an impressive time and it's a good feeling to see how far this place has come over the years.Sometimes I am not as dedicated as I once was here, I still have fond memories from all those years ago and wouldn't trade them for anything.
-Lt. Rance-
Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
The Aces Club is an odd and ultimately tragic story - they were a group that was ostensibly founded to create an equal group for PBM players instead of a singular dictatorship... but they were ultimately crushed by the inflexibility of their own unofficial leadership structure.
When I first found out about the Aces they were the coolest thing in the universe. They had this website on a university server that would phase-shift into existence briefly every few months... and it was full of fun stuff. New ship specifications, dozens and dozens of Wing Commander stories, etc.! I think I had a printout of their 'Katana' fighter in the front of my 9th Grade binder for a time...
By the time they'd joined the general internet group, though, the romance was gone. I was a young kind and a jerk in my own right, but my reaction to actually knowing the Aces Club founders was that they were real idiots.
For one thing, their stories were pretty crummy - especially in terms of continuity. They'd killed Blair, destroyed the Victory, restarted the Kilrathi War and invented their own super-Confederation full of super-fighters... within a few months of Wing Commander III coming out. The Aces 'founders' were mind-blisteringly dumb about all of this. 'It's not our fault,' they'd repeat, 'we thought the series was done.' You thought the best-selling game ever (at the time) wouldn't get a sequel? REALLY?
They replaced Wing Commander's marines with robot suits and terminology taken directly from Mechwarrior... and constantly praised their mech fan for 'inventing' the material. Apparently they hadn't actually seen the soldiers in the games or the books or the manuals... but I digress.
You can forgive them all that, because they were kids having fun (even if they denied it)... but the actual politics of the club were much worse. It became clear that the entire group was built around the fact that they really hated a yougn teenager ('David Borton') who had run their original AOL Wing Commander club. They fought with this kid about everything in the way that only groups of teenagers can - internet battles raged for months about who 'owned' a picture of a circle.
Both groups prodded eachother constantly, but the Aces were the ones who were smug and awful about it. We're the *mature* group, they insisted, we're all adults... and (here's a good one) our PBMs prove that we're *professional writers*. It eventually came to pass that having mechwarriors kill Wing Commander characters made the six guys in charge more professional writers than anyone else who would dare to join... and it just kind of collapsed in on itself, especially after Borton and company decided they just weren't interested in playing war anymore.
I'm not sure if I'm explaining very well - the general belief was that the founders were *better* than everyone else and that also they didn't have to do anything to prove that anymore. They just sat around and took credit for anything anyone else in the club did and chastized everyone for anything they wanted.
... but in spite of all that, it was a fun time and they were an interesting group to observe. People wholly separate from Mustang and Yan and TRH and whoever the other Founders were managed to do quite a bit with the club... groups like the WC RPG and the HOlding the Line PBM that exist today came directly from the Aces.
I wasn't the only one who had that experience with the Aces. Origin's PR guy went through the same process - he saw the work they had online and decided to work out a plan to make them the 'official' Wing Commander fan club. Such a body existing would have been pretty darned cool! But then he went to meet with the people in charge and found that it was all nasty infighting and superiority complexes... and the idea was dropped entirely.
When I first found out about the Aces they were the coolest thing in the universe. They had this website on a university server that would phase-shift into existence briefly every few months... and it was full of fun stuff. New ship specifications, dozens and dozens of Wing Commander stories, etc.! I think I had a printout of their 'Katana' fighter in the front of my 9th Grade binder for a time...
By the time they'd joined the general internet group, though, the romance was gone. I was a young kind and a jerk in my own right, but my reaction to actually knowing the Aces Club founders was that they were real idiots.
For one thing, their stories were pretty crummy - especially in terms of continuity. They'd killed Blair, destroyed the Victory, restarted the Kilrathi War and invented their own super-Confederation full of super-fighters... within a few months of Wing Commander III coming out. The Aces 'founders' were mind-blisteringly dumb about all of this. 'It's not our fault,' they'd repeat, 'we thought the series was done.' You thought the best-selling game ever (at the time) wouldn't get a sequel? REALLY?
They replaced Wing Commander's marines with robot suits and terminology taken directly from Mechwarrior... and constantly praised their mech fan for 'inventing' the material. Apparently they hadn't actually seen the soldiers in the games or the books or the manuals... but I digress.
You can forgive them all that, because they were kids having fun (even if they denied it)... but the actual politics of the club were much worse. It became clear that the entire group was built around the fact that they really hated a yougn teenager ('David Borton') who had run their original AOL Wing Commander club. They fought with this kid about everything in the way that only groups of teenagers can - internet battles raged for months about who 'owned' a picture of a circle.
Both groups prodded eachother constantly, but the Aces were the ones who were smug and awful about it. We're the *mature* group, they insisted, we're all adults... and (here's a good one) our PBMs prove that we're *professional writers*. It eventually came to pass that having mechwarriors kill Wing Commander characters made the six guys in charge more professional writers than anyone else who would dare to join... and it just kind of collapsed in on itself, especially after Borton and company decided they just weren't interested in playing war anymore.
I'm not sure if I'm explaining very well - the general belief was that the founders were *better* than everyone else and that also they didn't have to do anything to prove that anymore. They just sat around and took credit for anything anyone else in the club did and chastized everyone for anything they wanted.
... but in spite of all that, it was a fun time and they were an interesting group to observe. People wholly separate from Mustang and Yan and TRH and whoever the other Founders were managed to do quite a bit with the club... groups like the WC RPG and the HOlding the Line PBM that exist today came directly from the Aces.
I wasn't the only one who had that experience with the Aces. Origin's PR guy went through the same process - he saw the work they had online and decided to work out a plan to make them the 'official' Wing Commander fan club. Such a body existing would have been pretty darned cool! But then he went to meet with the people in charge and found that it was all nasty infighting and superiority complexes... and the idea was dropped entirely.
I remember the Aces. I think the word you're looking for, LOAF, is 'elitist.' Of course, I mean that as a state of mind rather than a statement of quality.
Fortunately, I didn't get much involved. I received HTL by mail, and I recall one of the Start-Up RPG's a member started (Avenging Angel, I think) that I was involved in for a short time, but that was about it.
I miss doing Role-Playing Sims. the WC RPG, as it exists today, doesn't interest me too much. I'd like to do a sim during the mid-war era, during the 2640's-2650's. I think I got turned down the one time I applied to join because I wanted to create a Kilrathi character, and they only wanted terrans at the time.
Fortunately, I didn't get much involved. I received HTL by mail, and I recall one of the Start-Up RPG's a member started (Avenging Angel, I think) that I was involved in for a short time, but that was about it.
I miss doing Role-Playing Sims. the WC RPG, as it exists today, doesn't interest me too much. I'd like to do a sim during the mid-war era, during the 2640's-2650's. I think I got turned down the one time I applied to join because I wanted to create a Kilrathi character, and they only wanted terrans at the time.
Having read Loaf's brief history of the Aces, I think actually what I played for a little while was WC RPG. I just got confused since, as Loaf says, it came directly off of the Aces (and at that time they had only recently split up). It was fun as I remember it. I went through the "academy", did a mission against some Kilrathi, almost died... but my friend got his character court martialed and thrown out and after that I stopped playing heh.
I actually out of curiosity just hopped onto the WCRPG website a few days ago to see if they were still around and, of course, they are. It's almost unrecognizable as being Wing Commander anymore though. From what I was able to glean Confed was involved in a civil war or something... which to me is ~~~. The Red Horizon MUSH I played on also diverged HEAVILY from the continuity since they basically started the timeline in 2762, told us to play, and we basically created our own history from there based on our actions. We actually had a pretty extensive history by the time it shut down. One of my little ambitions it to make a "fan fic" based on the pilot character I played there.
I actually out of curiosity just hopped onto the WCRPG website a few days ago to see if they were still around and, of course, they are. It's almost unrecognizable as being Wing Commander anymore though. From what I was able to glean Confed was involved in a civil war or something... which to me is ~~~. The Red Horizon MUSH I played on also diverged HEAVILY from the continuity since they basically started the timeline in 2762, told us to play, and we basically created our own history from there based on our actions. We actually had a pretty extensive history by the time it shut down. One of my little ambitions it to make a "fan fic" based on the pilot character I played there.
Wow, that's a name I didn't think I'd ever hear again. To be honest, I'm not sure if he decided that he wasn't "interested in playing war anymore," I think it was exhaustion from the constant channel takeovers and harassment. People would come in and take over the channel and flood it, calling David's girlfriend a whale. Myself, I had a website made about me with my address at the top, emploring people to send hate mail to my house and sound files depicting my death. It wasn't fun for a stupid lonely kid who didn't know that those were just idle threats. I was around for the last SRA RP and it came down to a brawl set on the bridge and him trying to hit the self destruct button. TCS Destiny exploded and that was the end of the group.
I think he and his girlfriend founded a fantasy RP a few weeks later as the entire group scattered.
I remember that one of the main sticking points was that the Aces said that our ships were too powerful (I'd have to kind of concede this point) and that "Borty" had stolen a design from them.
Dundradal
Frog Blast the Vent Core!
I was a part of the Aces for a bit, although my work was limited to the beginning of HTL. I worked on the early Valley Forge stories. I'm still very proud of "Vikings go to Valhalla, but where do pirates go?"
Even if later on certain personalities ruined the characters I'd help to create.
Even if later on certain personalities ruined the characters I'd help to create.
Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
Mr. Borton actually visited our community last summer - he matured a lot more than some of the old Aces I know.
Haesslich
Spaceman
I think I -might- have a log of that last RP. Oh God, that was a hoot. And to think, that was the SECOND time that the ship'd blown up. The first time I believe the TCS Destiny crashed into another of his supercarriers, like a week or two before, and it took a while for everyone to calm down. The second time, there was a disagreement about the way things were going and then he went all Tolwyn on everyone (Black Lance time, invading the Destiny) from his other Vesuvius-class, and I believe that my Marines held the bridge and engine room against him as the self-destruct was engaged. This was supposed to get the mutineers to surrender, IIRC, but it didn't work out too well.
Afterwards he stormed off the channel with Christa, and that was that. Oh, sweet memories indeed.
Hahaha, amazing.
vindicator
Rear Admiral
It's definitely an interesting trip to take to go back and look at the beginning of my appearances in the fandom in general because nearly all the communities I was a part of as it related to WC are dead except this place.
What LOAF Mentions about the Aces club can be almost super-imposed on any story of a community that died. Rarely did a community related to WC just die. They were often Repleetah like struggles that lasted months and strong wills would clash in epic IRC/Forum yelling matches that ended with folks taking sides and launching the occasional verbal grenade at each other and retreating to some "Newer" "Better" community they had formed in violent protest.
It always amazed me that of all the communites I watched from 1998 to now, the WCNews folks and the CZ has stayed pretty immune to these kind of strange, weird and completely meaningless battles.
I always liked the battle from the old days when Certain kids could make internet webpages and they thought that gave them power in the community. I will always remember that one of the places I visited ended with a webmaster getting his feelings hurt because the particular leader we had took his op status away in the corresponding IRC channel. The battle lasted nearly 7 months, with the eventual death of the place because people were tired of the crazy invasions and web hacking and threats.
Battles were epic then....I guess that's why this place has Death.
What LOAF Mentions about the Aces club can be almost super-imposed on any story of a community that died. Rarely did a community related to WC just die. They were often Repleetah like struggles that lasted months and strong wills would clash in epic IRC/Forum yelling matches that ended with folks taking sides and launching the occasional verbal grenade at each other and retreating to some "Newer" "Better" community they had formed in violent protest.
It always amazed me that of all the communites I watched from 1998 to now, the WCNews folks and the CZ has stayed pretty immune to these kind of strange, weird and completely meaningless battles.
I always liked the battle from the old days when Certain kids could make internet webpages and they thought that gave them power in the community. I will always remember that one of the places I visited ended with a webmaster getting his feelings hurt because the particular leader we had took his op status away in the corresponding IRC channel. The battle lasted nearly 7 months, with the eventual death of the place because people were tired of the crazy invasions and web hacking and threats.
Battles were epic then....I guess that's why this place has Death.
Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
I think you're all reading a little bit too much into everything. By their very nature, no one external to a particular RPG session cares what happened in it.
Yeah, kinda lost me with the detailed recollections of things I wasn't a part of. 
Still, are there any viable RPG's running anymore that are more canocal?
I wish I could pinpoint my first online experiences. I started BBS surfing in 1991, and in 92 or 93 I remember having a couple trial periods of Sierra Online, in which I played a lot of Blobs and Red Baron. I didn't get the interner-proper until 95, I think. I beta tested MPlayer (the online service, not windows media player), and did a lot of Quake and Terminal Velocity (the latter I was undefeated it.)
From that point forward, it's a blur. I joined the online WC community in '97, around the time Prophecy was released and FreeSpace was rearing its head. I ran a Space Sim news-site called JumpPoint for a short time, and I remember visiting the earliest version of the CIC.
Still, are there any viable RPG's running anymore that are more canocal?
I wish I could pinpoint my first online experiences. I started BBS surfing in 1991, and in 92 or 93 I remember having a couple trial periods of Sierra Online, in which I played a lot of Blobs and Red Baron. I didn't get the interner-proper until 95, I think. I beta tested MPlayer (the online service, not windows media player), and did a lot of Quake and Terminal Velocity (the latter I was undefeated it.)
From that point forward, it's a blur. I joined the online WC community in '97, around the time Prophecy was released and FreeSpace was rearing its head. I ran a Space Sim news-site called JumpPoint for a short time, and I remember visiting the earliest version of the CIC.